AIBU to not let DD have a sleepover with the girl she is going out with?

Did you miss OP saying that her DD has just started "going out with" the girl she wants to invite for a sleepover?

11yo in relationships? How fast and wild
some kids are.
I have a 10yo who is so far from
any of this.

I went to a number of schools aged 9-13, and they varied a lot, but it wasn't uncommon for 10yos to have a 'gf/bf'. That might just look like sharing a treat from their lunch box now and then, talking now and then, or some might even have a first kiss or put an arm around each other but many wouldn't. It often wasn't what we might consider an actual relationship. One friend had consensual sex at 12. So there is a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide range of what kids can mean by 'girlfriend'.

it’s an old thread but I am a lesbian (though I didn’t come out until I was 19) and I find it a bit fascinating that people think sexual stuff only happen at night IF they are to happen amongst children.

not sure my experience is the norm but I know enough people in similar situations to mine to know my experience isn’t uncommon.

But I would say NO 11yo isn’t too young to do sexual stuff, I remember being groomed as a child (I was 9) by female friends who were older (11/12) and introduced me to things like porn, sex etc… during daytime hours (I have never have a sleep over at their homes). I was later sexually assaulted by boys (older than me) from my extended family/family friends. Only one of my assaults happened at night, every single other occurrence happened during day time often with my or their parents in the home.

My own personal interest in being sexual awakened much later but clearly many kids are interested in experimenting/exploring each other’s body, many (though I like to think not majoritarily) before 13.

My girlfriend also had sexual stuff done to her as a child (by a boy in her family) from age 5 to 14 (he was therefore 9 to 18 during the assaults). 99.9% of the assaults happened during day time hours.

Those are assaults but it’s to say kids don’t only experiment at night, they experiment when they can/where they can.

if two person WANT to have sex stopping sleepover won’t stop it from occurring, it might reduce the chances but honestly unless you are behind your daughter like a hawk and she’s NEVER allowed to have any kind of time playing with anyone where you are not in the room present, it can and might very well still occur.

Your best strategy is to create a safe space for her, talk to her about consent, about her body about the fact that curiosity might be natural (for her and for others) but if something makes her feel uncomfortable she should speak up and voice her discomfort/concerns and if she feels her space or boundaries aren’t being respected that she should come to YOU (ideally but any other adult she trusts, also) , because you want her to feel safe and respected.

I wish I had felt safe to talk to my mom, I wish I had been emboldened to know that experimenting can be okay if it’s consensual. But to consent to something you need to be aware. My mom got pregnant with me at 16 so I feel she felt she wasn’t the right person to suggest I shouldn’t do the same and kind of didn’t provide us with the tool to navigate sexuality etc… (I am a 90’s kid so being gay was also still very shameful and taboo).

if I had kids in your situation I would make sure my kid was aware of everything and that she felt safe to either explore on her own terms in a consensual manner (you cannot control her will to experiment or explore so you can only make sure consent is engrained in her and in how she navigates situations) if she must (while suggesting it’s always better to wait and to be older and have more tools because it can shape how you navigate the rest of your life) and I would put trust in her, you are not going to be able to ban her from having sleep over with everyone and if you ban gf specifically she will just lie about who she is seeing and who is just a friend and you increase the chances of her ending up in a bad situation. If you want your daughter to trust you if she ever needs help or get in trouble or her boundaries are crossed you need to trust her and yes, that include giving her the freedom to figure out her own boundaries and live her experiences (she might genuinely not be interested in sex).

I didn’t come out because of the era I grew up in but if I did and it resulted in sleepovers being banned and me being “punished” for it, I would have immediately stopped confiding in my mom and the lack of sleepover still wouldn’t have protected me from all the grooming and sexual experiences I had/was forced upon. Creating a relationship of trust and dialogue might have. You won’t always like what your kids might be thinking about willingly doing but protecting them from willingly experimenting isn’t a hill I would die on (as it’s a losing battle I feel) it’s giving them the tools to navigate those phases of life in a way that is healthy and safe and respectful of both their boundaries and those of others that’s important (obviously if there is a big age gap it’s a whole different ball game so it’s only referring to two people in the same age group who might (unfortunately, as it’s early,) both be keen on experimenting.) and giving them the tools to navigate situations where that might not be the case and what to do then as you won’t always be there to know or help or prevent. So the best gift to your child would be empowering her into knowing herself and respect others and you respecting her processes by helping her navigate them in the best and healthiest way possible (which won’t always be the way or at the age you hoped for or what you had hoped or wished for her).

Not trying to be funny, but how can a child in P7 at 11 years old have a "relationship"?

I thought I was young at 13 when I had my first boyfriend.

I would be concerned about the fact an 11 year old wants to "go out" with anyone.

If there is an inclination that this is more than friends, of course you shouldnt allow a sleepover. They can meet up for bowling, cinema etc or have dinner at each others houses, but no sleepovers.

I assume it would be a flat out no if it was a boy?

The gender shouldn't even be considered.

Hmmm

The thing is, she could just not tell you another time that a girl is her girlfriend and you’d be none the wiser.

You can’t stop her having sleepovers with other girls generally just because she might be gay.

Maybe allow this one in separate rooms? It’s unlikely they’d be getting up to anything at 11, but just for peace of mind.

It’s not the equivalent of having a boy to stay over though. It’s never the equivalent of that just because a child/ teen is or might be gay.

I'd agree with this approach. If you allow it now it will be very hard to stop later.

The hard thing is that means DD is either allowed any girl to stay over except her gf (in which case she'll probably hide who her gf is in the future to get around this rule), or she is not allowed to have girls stay over (in which case she's banned from having any sleepovers because she's a lesbian, which isn't fair). I agree they're too young to have sleepovers with a gf or bf, but it's harder to navigate in this situation.

Even if this poster really is homophobic and doesn’t know any people in same sex relationships, how has their child got to the age of 10 without having a friend or classmate with same sex parents?!
I cannot fathom keeping the concept of homosexuality a secret from a child, lest it encourage their child to be gay.

Fucking mind boggling.

I can only assume you are homophobic if this is your view. My SIL is a lesbian and my children have known since they were tiny that you can have a husband or a wife and that Aunty R lives with Aunty G just like they know that Uncle S lives with Aunty D. They know nothing about the adult's sex life (because that would be weird and inappropriate) but they know the relationships are equally valid.

A general point - there's a massive issue about sexualising children. Seeing them as mini adults capable of consenting to sexual relationships and in the interests of "inclusion" including same sex relationships.

This attitude is at the root of the grooming gangs scandal. Seeing girls as able to consent and take responsibility for sexual activity with othes.

All children are entitled to be safeguarded. No child should ever be encouraged to see themselves as being in intimate relationships with another child. I get that we can argue about age differences - 11? 13? 15?
But the law on age of consent is a protective measure and posters minimising the risks of 11 year olds being able to consent to sexual activity with other children are making the same error as all those adults in Rotherham etc who saw those abused girls as complicit and active in their abuse.

I understand that's not what some posters intend when they post about this being harmless. But children are entitled to be protected from adult issues and sex. There's nothing wrong in saying - "No - relationships like this are for adults. You're friends and that's great. But it's not a lesbian relatonship and there'll be no sleepovers at 11".

Well done to the OP for prioritising her daughter's safety.

Your child doesn’t know what a lesbian is? How odd. Knowing gay people exist isn’t going to make them gay themselves - not that there’s any problem with being gay. There’s a tremendous amount of homophobia on this thread.

OP, I can see you’ve made your mind up about this and I think you’ve made a sensible decision. If it were me, I’d have the same answer as if my daughter had asked for a boy she’s ’going out with’ to sleep over - absolutely not. I won’t be setting a precedent for having partners sleeping over until much, much older, however innocent I think the situation is.

Being in a lesbian relationship at 11 is not remotely life-changing. It will not stop her having future relationships with either sex, or no relationships at all, should she wish to.

Why would a lesbian relationship at 11 be any worse than a heterosexual relationship at 11? And why shouldn't your 10 year old know what a lesbian is? Surely it's a positive thing that they know that two consenting adults can be in a loving relationship, regardless of their biological sex?

That’s strange that they have no idea about same sex couples

I don't think I said I was happy with it. The reality though is these things happen. I'll show you mine if you show me yours was a thing 50+ years ago when I was there age.

My point was that two 11 year old girls sharing a room, even if they admitted having a 'fumble' wouldn't or at least shouldn't cross the threshold for Social Services to get involved.

You’d be happy with your 11 year old child, having a ‘fumble’!!???? Really?
An emotional crush is one thing. A physical relationship at this age is just wrong. For hetero or homosexual relationships. They are children.

Thinking back to when I was a few months shy of 12, I had a huge crush on a neighbour boy who was 12/13. He was kind to me but even at that young age, I could tell that my romantic feelings weren’t reciprocated. Desire can certainly be present at 11.

You do realise it's a CRIMINAL offence for the parents to orchestrate this.

Someone needs to step in and take control. Clearly, neither the OP not the other child's parents are capable of looking after the welfare of their children.

Agree.

Yes, they are. They are contrasting heterosexual and lesbian relationships and contending that a lesbian one is life changing. Even suggesting that knowledge of the existence of lesbianism is in some way illicit and not suitable for children.

They aren’t saying that though are they.

I'm pretty sure social services have bigger fish to fry then a couple of girls who say they're going out - whatever that means to them.

Even if they have fumble I doubt anything would come of it.

This.
There are laws to safeguard children from sexual relationships. And it's an offence to encourage them to participate in sexual relationships. There are reasons for these laws - they protect children from engaging in age inappropriate sexual relationships.

The OP's evidently sensible and will be safeguarding her daughter, But for all those minimising this, there's a difference between being accepting of same sex relationships and engaging children in ideas / behaviour that suggests it's OK for 11 year olds to be sexually involved.

There's a lot of naivety from some posters on here about the need to ensure that children understand that sexual relationships are for adults and not children - not just because of abuse but because children are too young to navigate adult relationships. It's probably not a coincidence that the child is in a Scottish Primary schools as there's a lot of evidence about deeply unsuitable organisations being allowed to work in primary schools, despite repeated paedophile scandals in these organisations, that raises huge red flags about their understanding of safeguarding and frankly their motivation. See the link below:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5147097-that-lgbtys-lgbt-youth-should-be-removed-from-schools-and-investigated-asap