Are SEN case workers to be trusted?

D’s SALT and OT are in F so funded through education. SALT takes place in the evening as dd is busy during the day. She was discharged by NHS at 4 but still receives SALT fortnightly at 22 through the EHCP delivered by an independent SALT likewise the OT. Education also fund her PA a provision often funded through social care but we have no social care input and dd wouldn’t fit social care criteria anyway. Instead Education fund 10 hours per week as preparation for adulthood. We argued that dd received PfA at independent specialist which would have continued had the college that followed on from school been suitable and so it should continue as EOTAS.

@hiredandsqueak the general public would be aghast at the amounts wasted. It is lovely to read DD is enjoying learning.

Tbh dd is really loving her current provision her tutors have used the LAs incompetence to really enrich her learning so she isn’t being taught to purely pass the exams she is enjoying a broad knowledge. All the while she is maturing and growing in confidence so for now it suits us to carry on as we are. I know others with EOTAS who will force the issue before we will need to so it will be addressed. It just amazes me how much money they are prepared to waste through their own lack of planning and action.

Of course not all therapists do, but there are lots of independent providers who work outside of school times. LAs can’t use the fact they want the provision to be delivered by their preferred provider as an excuse to limit provision.

that is usually the health aspect of provision and funded by the nhs rather than LA.

Not in a good EHCP, it isn’t. If it educates or trains, as therapies mostly do, it is deemed special educational provision rather than health care provision. Therefore, it should be in F and the LA is ultimately responsible.

I disagree that SENCOs writing EHCPs would be a good idea.

There would be a conflict of interest. This is sometimes evident now with AR paperwork, consult responses, and evidence for SENDIST. It would be the same with writing EHCPs. It isn’t uncommon for schools to fail to recognise some or all of a child’s needs or the provision they require. EHCPs should be written based on the child’s needs, not on what a placement can or wants to provide. All too often, EHCPs are written in a way that attempts to shoehorn a child into a particular placement. That wouldn’t change. It would give schools the opportunity to scaffold the provision in a way they can and want to deliver or conversely in a way that reads as though mainstream is completely incompatible even when it isn’t. Then you move to the more complex cases involving EOTAS/EOTIS/with or without the C on the end. Many SENCOs do not have the first clue about the law surrounding that. And there are DC who are not on the roll of a setting e.g. EHE DC or some below or above CSA.

There would also be problems with schools either intentionally or through ignorance believing the unlawful LA policies and myths and toeing the party line. This happens now. You only have to look at what nonsense some schools tell parents about EHCPs to see this. For example, this LA doesn’t do 1:1, the EHCP gives us suggestions and we decide what to implement, that (therapies, equipment…) doesn’t go in EHCPs…. Many are not aware SCP/HCP which educates or trains is deemed SEP and therefore belongs in F. Many are oblivious to the requirements for PfA provision or what it entails. Lots do not recognise woolly and vaguely wording and fail to understand the implications of woolly and vague wording. Look at how poor some SEN Support plans/IEPs/provision maps etc. are and they are far simpler than EHCPs.

Most therapists work within a standard working day, except a few private practices, as we also have families too! Yes to some provision during school holidays, but that is usually the health aspect of provision and funded by the nhs rather than LA. Not all provision within an EHCP is LA funded, it depends on the section it's stipulated within.

I appreciate that, but some EHCPs fail to look at the child as more than a group of outcomes. Unfortunately most caseworkers seem to have very little health knowledge, and limited educational knowledge, and the EHCP's are just a copy and paste exercise from the various reports they receive, which isnt holistic or often even sensible. So yes I agree there are many very poor EHCP's due to caseworkers with limited knowledge, time pressures, sometimes conflicting advice from different professionals in same document. I feel EHCP's may be better written by someone who knows the child, such as their SENCo, but that would also comes with its own issues. The whole system is a bit of a disaster tbh, very expensive without accountability on whether the (often very costly) provision is actually making a significant difference to the child's long term outcomes.

@hiredandsqueak if DD is ready to sit exams (or will be ready soon since exams needs organising in advance especially if more complex EAA are required), I would be telling the LA if they don’t pull their finger out you will be forced to pursue JR. It is won’t rather than can’t. The LA knows full well DC with EOTAS can sit exams and that they are responsible. It is yet another delaying tactic.

although I am yet to see one where it does, except in the case of residential provision.

Then you have only seen poor EHCPs. Which isn’t surprising since many are poor.

provision for PT, OT, SLT does tend to need to fit within the school day, or the child needs to come out of school for it

This is not the case. Some DC have provision outside of the school day. Some even have provision at the weekend &/or outside of the school term times.

which is not ideal for the child or for working parents

Parents aren’t responsible for the provision. It is the LA’s responsibility. Professional time &/or transport to enable the provision to take place is the responsibility of the LA. It isn’t EHE.

but provision also needs to allow time for a child's non directed social development - making friends etc, and actual learning time, rather than just being therapy based.

I haven’t said otherwise. Both can happen.

Yes, absolutely, they are broader than that, with social care supossed to be included, although I am yet to see one where it does, except in the case of residential provision.
Yes, outcomes are not targets, bit they are connected.
As most professionals work similar hours to school day, provision for PT, OT, SLT does tend to need to fit within the school day, or the child needs to come out of school for it, which is not ideal for the child or for working parents, but provision also needs to allow time for a child's non directed social development - making friends etc, and actual learning time, rather than just being therapy based.

@hiredandsqueak It makes no sense.

@lavenderlouexactly this dd has missed three years in total waiting for Tribunal multiple times. She had a SSEN at 3 before setting foot in any educational placement. Prior to EOTAS she attended out of County independent specialist so LA were paying about £75k a year for provision. You would have thought they would have been happy when they agreed EOTAS and a significant saving on costs with a modest package but no they decided they would kick it down the road by issuing an unenforceable EHCP and refusing all provision. Now they are funding more than 30 hours a week EOTAS plus all materials and resources plus £50pw for sundries for dd to spend whilst out with a PA and saving next to nothing and because they can’t seem to get their end sorted and sort out how to sit external exams there is no end in sight as there is no way for her to meet the objective to secure level 3 qualifications.

And this is the trouble. I accept it's not directly the caseworkers to blame but who are the invisible people above them who are forcing parents to gp to tribunal by acting ilkegally? I will win a tribunal with no trouble at all - the provisions my DD needs are clearly specified into the EP report, it's just the LA who refuse to copy them over. Tribunal will kick the can down the road but then my DC will have missed too much education to get her GCSEs so not only will they have wasted money on court fees, they will then still need to pay for provision for her to be able to sit them post-16. It will probably end up costing them more.

SEP doesn’t only have to be provided during traditional school times. It can be provided outside of that. EHCPs are written based on the child’s needs, not to fit the school day.

Provision should be based on what is reasonably required to meet the child or YP’s needs. Outcomes are the result of provision. Outcomes are not targets (which are an aim). Many LAs claim not to know the difference.

There is nothing stopping LAs going back to professionals to request they comply with their duties. And since many have to appeal to get a watertight EHCP even if the evidence is there, waiting just delays DC getting the correct support.

I really feel for parents of children with SEND who are battling to get the correct provision for their children, but this is why I have never applied for a SEND case officer role despite being qualified, experienced, available and seeing roles advertised in my local area. I’m an experienced teacher with additional postgrad qualifications and extensive additional experience plus knowledge of SEND.

Any knowledge of the SEND system tells you that it is a horribly stressful job at which you can simply never succeed. You will always be doing wrong by someone…

The ideal outcome is that it is linked to well thought out, meaningful, realistic targets which are important and relevant to the child, which can be clearly measured by a reliable scale or test whether it has been acheived. And then provision is detailed specifically to meet this. I have lost count of the number of families, where I have asked (as a paediatric physio) what their goals are for their child, and they say it is to 'have daily physio with a qualified physio'. Unfortunately many families and many caseworkers don't understand what a true SMART outcome looks like, and as this is the starting point for a good EHCP, if it fails at this first hurdle, it will never be truly effective

Maybe if they are commissioned by the parents independent ones are sometimes better. But my response was to a poster stating LA should pay for private ones to bring down wait times, and it's these I was referring to as substandard, rather than parent commissioned private ones. Our LA EP's are excellent, really take the time to get to know the children, visiting them in current nursery/school settings at least twice to get a more thorough understanding, as well as also meeting with the parents both separately and with the child, and speaking with theur teachers. But the downside of them being so thorough is that wait lists go up as get through less children. So is it better to have a longer wait but with a helpful report, or a shorter wait with a more generalised report? Obviously neither is ideal, but that us the choice we are currently faced with.

Some parent commissioned ones are also unhelpful. I recall a child who had 8 hours per day of interventions stipulated in their EHCP. They were only at school 6 hours a day! And within that, after personal care, feeds etc there were only about 4.5 available hours, and the child was never actually in their classroom as it was all "1to 1 OT in a separate space 1 hour per " "1 hour speech therapy" " 1 hour sensory room" "1 hour physio hands on" etc etc.

A minority of specialist schools accept self funders. Although some are very expensive so the majority can’t afford them.

There are multiple outcomes listed in each Echp which are relevant to the child's needs. It clearly depends on the disability and the needs of the child. There is no 'one' outcome. A good summary is here.
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/education-health-and-care-plans

You cannot access a specialist school or certain school support without an echp. Even if you were a millionaire. It's not how the UK system works. If your child has high support needs, the only way to get them met is through an EHCP which is a legally binding document and sets out exactly what extra support as a specific named school the child is to receive.

@MuffinsOrCake an EHCP is a legal document. It sets out a child’s needs (not just special educational needs but social care needs and health care needs) and the provision (not just special educational provision but social care provision and health care provision) they reasonably require to meet those needs. It also covers what, if any, placement they will attend and any personal budget.

The vast majority of parents cannot afford to fund the provision a well written EHCP can provide. Then you have to consider some provision can’t be bought, so it isn’t just about the funding. It isn’t possible to self fund some placements even if you have enough money to. Many schools wouldn’t allow parents to self fund some provision within the school even if the parents could afford it.

If you want to read more about EHCPs, IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good places to start.

My son has an echp which in the key places is pretty well written (I threatened court and it worked thankfully) so it is very clear in giving him the support he needs including full time 1-1. He is in year 10 at a mainstream secondary and because the plan in clear and worded in such a way there is no ambiguity it followed well and DS is thriving at school.

the hard bit though is ensuring section F is clear. It needs phrases like “Fred requires 15 hours 1-1 support a week during x lessons providing y support” rather than the normal “Fred would benefit from extra adult support” which could mean anything

What is the ideal outcome of a working EHCP , give me a link

I am going to sidetrack here. I am from abroad. I have done everything private for one of my children. No severe needs also. What an EHCP actually should provide

Tbh it's the only way to get LA's to comply with the law. LA's use the long wait for SENDIST as a money saving measure increasingly. They don't particularly care about the child at the heart of it they are kicking the can down the road knowing that the 14 month wait (maybe even longer now) will save them money.Don't waste time with back and forth with the caseworker it's unlikely to change anything other than extend the time before LA are forced to make provision. If your child is at a transition stage you can ask for an expedited hearing to speed things up.

You shouldn't have to use the SEND tribunal to make an LA follow the law. However, this is the route open to you to force them to do so when they don't.

Not true. Tribunal panels do not differentiate like that.