Are SEN case workers to be trusted?

For primary reception entry it would usually be the child's first EHCP, issued in draft form for parents and professionals to review (so inaccuracies can be corrected before being finalised) before being completed and sent to the school for comment, so it should be up to date and accurate. Our school invites child and family for a 'look round' before offer of place to gain additional information on whether can meet need. And pretty much every child who at this point they told LA unable to meet need but forced to take anyway, they continue to feel it was not an appropriate setting, and many have since moved to specialist setting or awaiting a place in a specialist setting. No child has been more able than EHCP suggests, usually its the reverse from our experience. Moving is disruptive for the child, and much better to start in correct setting in first place. Plus they have taken a place in the ARP away from a child for whom it would have been appropriate, who has then struggled in standard mainstream class.
I can only speak for our school, but they definitely know best which children will thrive in their school and which will not.

Our la has a tendency to try in certain cases to try and make the ehcp/consult fit the school so that the school say yes. This happens a lot with children starting school. Parents don’t know the sen system well yet and still trust that it makes the right decision for their child. They are thrilled when they are told that little Johnny with highly complex needs can have his needs met in mainstream.

but the childs actual needs don’t change just because you don’t write them down properly and a lot of caseworkers only see as far as getting a school named they don’t seem to appreciate the fact that the child will then go on to actually attend in practise and if there needs are much greater than what was on ehcp/consult the placement will break down. It’s also not just a case of trying and seeing if it works works out, children who have had a failed placement on the whole tend to be end up having bigger behavioural issues than children who had their needs met in an apppropate setting.

it is good that you school invites parents in as you can then get the full picture from the parent and child

For primary reception entry it would usually be the child's first EHCP, issued in draft form for parents and professionals to review (so inaccuracies can be corrected before being finalised) before being completed and sent to the school for comment, so it should be up to date and accurate. Our school invites child and family for a 'look round' before offer of place to gain additional information on whether can meet need. And pretty much every child who at this point they told LA unable to meet need but forced to take anyway, they continue to feel it was not an appropriate setting, and many have since moved to specialist setting or awaiting a place in a specialist setting. No child has been more able than EHCP suggests, usually its the reverse from our experience. Moving is disruptive for the child, and much better to start in correct setting in first place. Plus they have taken a place in the ARP away from a child for whom it would have been appropriate, who has then struggled in standard mainstream class.
I can only speak for our school, but they definitely know best which children will thrive in their school and which will not.

Also, when schools make decisions it is often on the basis of the inaccurate and/or out of date EHCP which is the only document LAs send for consultation purposes in many cases. I've seen schools believe, for instance, that a child is cognitively really low because no-one has bothered to update the EHCP in years so they think he has made no progress since nursery days.

My post was a response to someone suggesting that the way to improve the situation is for all caseworkers in the country to immediately leave their jobs and leave the roles empty. Because then the government would apparently fix everything straight away 🙄 I wish.

The situation with perm exclusions is an outrage. I work with care experiences children who are probably the biggest groups affected by this. It is an underhand way of schools offrolling SEND learners and the SEND teams are as disgusted as parents. Our service lead went through a phase of attending the governors panel to try and force the point .. it specifically states in the perm ex and suspension stat guidance that a child can't be excluded due to unmet SEND needs but schools (academies especially) ignore this and use it to unlawfully off roll.
The LA font have a legal redress route for this it's the parents who would go to tribunal for disability discrimination but most don't.

I'm on two LA steering groups at work (AP development and EBSNA), work with the parent carer forum in my work LA as a link and my home LA as a parent rep. I volunteer my time to a group run by my local MP to lobby the government on SEND reforms, am the SEND Governor at my son's school as well as working 50 hours min a week and being parent to 3 SEND kids. What about you? Enough to leave me physically and mentally broken to be honest but if I don't who will? Someone bitching that their caseworker is a cow ...that's going to achieve sweet FA.

It's a lot more than someone who is in a couple of parent FB groups, reads special needs jungle and bitches on MN (not saying you but plenty on here clearly met that description).

Like many of you, I have navigated nearly 20 years of being a SEND parent with 3 children wth SEND (actually that's a lot more than some on here feeling like their nastiness should be untouchable)pre pandemic, during and post. Working in mainstream schools, special schools, SENCO roles and as an LA. Post-grad quals in SEND, Autism and a level 3 legal qualification.

I have a very broad view of the challenges of the system, the nuances and parental difficulties.
I have never posted the depths of my children's struggles on here, that is their business and not a means of me point scoring against some random on the interne. But according to some random up thread I have had an easy time of it in the SEND system ..Have I heck!! Because I have an ounce of intelligence I know that this is because of funding and government policy, not because only people who are untrustworthy and 'have the skins of rhinoceros' become SEND case workers.

Some people were nasty cows before they became a SEND parent, but they now feel they are justified. And brush off what my colleagues have experienced all you like. Just know that people who are abusive to them are completely contributing to the lack of stability in the workforce and the impact on delays etc. A bit like people who are awful to teachers then whinge that their child has a new one every term.

@CleverButScatty

So what would happen to all of the kids who are awaiting a plan or placement or get perm wxcluded etc during that process. Do we just write them off for the good of future generation? Do I take it we aren't including your kids in these written off cohorts?

A high number of children are excluded during the process. It is exactly our situation, and that of at least 6 other families I know locally (I recon there are far more). Our DC cannot cope in mainstream, mainstream is refusing to let my child attend. In the meantime, the EHCP process lead to nothing other than that the local authority agreed months ago to issue an EHCP (which stipulates a specialist setting) but the 'panel' of the EHCP is refusing to finalise and is not replying to emails or returning phone calls. Exclusion is, at least in my LA, standard practice whilst the LA takes 50/60/70/80 weeks to finalise. My friends DS's plan was finalised in week 85 - with mainstream even though the boy cannot attend mainstream and all reports made that clear. You are hugely naive if you believe if you think this isn't standard practice. It may not be in your LA but it is in many areas. We cannot even appeal, as nobody is finalising. EP report etc were all done on time. so it's not even the standard EP delay holding us up bit simply the EHCP team with their delaying tactics which only have one aim: to save money. Nobody has the wellbeing and education of our children at heart!

Absolutely, it's a case of those which shout loudest get the most. And I don't blame the parents for asking for more, everyone of course wants the best for their child. But the system needs to balance the needs of all children fairly. That may mean some getting less than they ask for, but it does need to be more equitable for all children, both those with and without SEN.

Definitely it's like a trauma response.
Copying and pasting the legislation into a Mumsnet post and kicking off if other people just wasn't an informal chat because it's a social platform.

It's a complex and multi layered issue. But vilifying people doing a job isn't ok and I think that's the difficulty. I know of a caseworker who took their own life after a period of horrific work stress and leaves behind two young children. I know several really kind and gentle people who went off sick and left and almost have a PTSD like condition which still affects their everyday life and ability to work.

It's the talk of unlawful behaviour as though someone who is given more work than they can get through is a criminal. It's taking it out in the only people they have access to, not those responsible for the system. Like caseworkers are viewed as some kind of fictional villain, not actual people doing a job at the council.

The LA is entitled to determine this and the parent has the right to appeal the decision.

Parents shouldn’t have to challenge the decision. LAs should act lawfully to begin with.

Surely schools know better than anyone which children's needs they can meet?

This isn’t always the case. Even when they do understand about the child’s needs, schools aren’t always aware of the legal threshold for proving incompatibility.

Don't? I was a single parent with my older two and my ex was a waste of space.
You didn't know anything about me, my background or things I have overcome to drag myself and children to the position I am currently in.
None of that is related to caseworkers personal character traits.

@CleverButScatty "If you have an entry level, or service based job, or shit partner who doesn't pull their weight etc if course that will be different."

Now I know you don't really understand the experiences of the wide and diverse people you are meant to serve, no matter how senior you are.

@CleverButScatty "If you have an entry level, or service based job, or shit partner who doesn't pull their weight etc if course that will be different."

Now I know you don't really understand the experiences of the wide and diverse people you are meant to serve, no matter how senior you are.

I don't think that's what's happening to be honest.

I don't think your recent comment was even directed at anything I'd said up thread because I was typing my comment pretty much at the same time as you.

Does no one in your home LA even know you're a SEN professional? I didn't work for my home LA and they do know.

I think your recent comments really betray your disdain for other parents who might not have the resources and experience you do, 'an ounce of intelligence' and the sarcastic special needs jungle comments were quite hard to read.

I don't work in my home LA and my older children went through their difficulties before I worked in the LA.

You are turning yourself inside out to invalidate my experience as a SEND PARENT It is not invalid. It gives me valuable insight onto both sides of the process.
It's a bit bitchy really, trying to silence my voice as a SEND parent because I am disagreeing with some of nastiness towards individuals who work within the LA.

The reason I am able to work is because my partner sees these things as his responsibility too and my qualifications and experience give me the option to take a hybrid role. I still took a 40% pay cut to do this. I have ended up on hospital with sepsis from a minor ailment twice in the last 4 years and both times the doctor was adamant it was stress related. How dare you try and minimise my experience. The difference in being able to work is about the training and career decisions I made 30 years ago. I frequently end up completing work at the weekend and late at night when my partner can take over. If you have an entry level, or service based job, or shit partner who doesn't pull their weight etc if course that will be different. But that's nowt to do with the caseworkers.

@Bluebell865 I sometimes think that some professionals in the field who have children with SEN are a bit dismissive of other parents. They don't realise that if they are a professional and the people who work with their children know this, they will be automatically treated a LOT better than non-SEN professional parents. Like when a doctor turns up to be treated at A&E. I was definitely given preferential treatment when I worked in the field, and believed straight away.

Also, they tend (and this is hard to say because it comes across as equally dismissive) not to have children with extremely high needs. They don't have the children who have stabbed their parents with a kitchen knife, or whose parents are talking about putting them in care aged 8 due to such challenging behaviour, or children who are admitted to mental health hospitals. This is because many parents who have children with these kinds of needs rapidly find they can no longer work. So when they are talking about LAs not being able to make placement decisions and instead waiting over a year for a tribunal while their child has nothing they're not really emotionally invested in it.

This is my experience, I am sure there are professionals with children in the system or are at edge of care stage or in mental health hospitals but, I haven't met any many. When one of my children had a crisis it nearly destroyed our lives completely and there was no way I could work.

@CleverButScatty

So what would happen to all of the kids who are awaiting a plan or placement or get perm wxcluded etc during that process. Do we just write them off for the good of future generation? Do I take it we aren't including your kids in these written off cohorts?

A high number of children are excluded during the process. It is exactly our situation, and that of at least 6 other families I know locally (I recon there are far more). Our DC cannot cope in mainstream, mainstream is refusing to let my child attend. In the meantime, the EHCP process lead to nothing other than that the local authority agreed months ago to issue an EHCP (which stipulates a specialist setting) but the 'panel' of the EHCP is refusing to finalise and is not replying to emails or returning phone calls. Exclusion is, at least in my LA, standard practice whilst the LA takes 50/60/70/80 weeks to finalise. My friends DS's plan was finalised in week 85 - with mainstream even though the boy cannot attend mainstream and all reports made that clear. You are hugely naive if you believe if you think this isn't standard practice. It may not be in your LA but it is in many areas. We cannot even appeal, as nobody is finalising. EP report etc were all done on time. so it's not even the standard EP delay holding us up bit simply the EHCP team with their delaying tactics which only have one aim: to save money. Nobody has the wellbeing and education of our children at heart!