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Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

190 replies

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 15:41

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

OP posts:
TorroFerney · 14/03/2025 16:42

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:20

@IDontHateRainbows I am not prepared to do it though, I feel singled out and I don’t want to go as far as to say bullied, but I feel like this is intended to push me out. I have various examples of my work being good with good feedback. It simply isn’t genuine that he wants me on a PIP to ‘help me improve.’ He wants me gone.

Good feedback from who? Not being an arse but I’ve had that one from someone on a pip, person they’d asked wasn’t looking at it from the angle I was and wasn’t an expert in that field to be able to judge. People are generally nice as well and don’t like to give bad feedback.

JustinOtherdad · 14/03/2025 16:40

Sagittarius25 · 14/03/2025 15:59

I work in HR, no you can't really refuse to go on a PIP. as others have said, if you did it would just skip to the next stage of a formal disciplinary process where you would likely be managed out for not performing and not doing PIP to try and improve performance. If you feel that strongly that you shouldn't be on the PIP then surely you should easily be able to meet the targets that will be set out in the PIP as it's all target based, they will be set out in the introductory meeting.

Unfortunately, many managers use PIPs to manage people they don't like out when they have no cause for a formal disciplinary process.

OP, it's very hard to get off a PIP especially if its a matter of opinion. Your manager should be managing your development to bring you up to the level they expect rather than trying to punish you for not being there.

If you've no need to try to stay, I'd start looking for a new role. Sorry.

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 14/03/2025 16:40

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It’s a Personal Improvement Plan, not PIP for disability.

TorroFerney · 14/03/2025 16:38

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 15:53

@FortyElephants it would take me ages to explain why I don’t agree with it. But I am very firm in my view that this was my manager’s objective rather than any deficiencies in my work. I don’t have a union.

So they will have to document areas for improvement, you document back. It’s not a choice though, have you been told which areas you need to improve?

Bogginsthe3rd · 14/03/2025 16:37

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Hortus · 14/03/2025 16:32

Presumably before this you have had comments that you haven't done the work required or it wasn't done to standard?
If you won't even engage with the PIP then you'll be gone anyway.
Is there a reason you're desperate to stay in this job, you can't be happy if you're underperforming, or if you think the manager wants you gone?
Are you near to retirement and just want to get through the last couple of years? If not then engage with the PIP and look for a new job at the same time.

Emanresuunknown · 14/03/2025 16:32

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:20

@IDontHateRainbows I am not prepared to do it though, I feel singled out and I don’t want to go as far as to say bullied, but I feel like this is intended to push me out. I have various examples of my work being good with good feedback. It simply isn’t genuine that he wants me on a PIP to ‘help me improve.’ He wants me gone.

But you have to ask yourself why he wants you gone? If you are a good worker who is performing well, why is he willing to waste what will ultimately be quite a bit of his own time, going through this process?

In my experience, the decision to put someone on a PIP is not one that is taken lightly and people put on them are often convinced they are working at a higher standard than they are.

Or, another common reason to end up on one is being overly resistant to change. Eg a new process comes in, a new software platform for eg, and you don't feel it's needed/don't want to use it, so avoid training on it /using it for as long as possible to try and demonstrate that it's not needed etc.

If you are a good worker, why do you think you are being put on a PIP

IdaGlossop · 14/03/2025 16:30

What a frustrating situation. I agree with PP that you have no option but to go on the PIP. Showing unwillingness to cooperate can only harm you in the longterm. Your best option is to look for another job at the same time.

Sherararara · 14/03/2025 16:30

If you genuinely feel you are being singled out and the issues identified in the PIP hold no merit then you will need to prepare your argument and take it to your managers manager. The more evidence you have the better. But also consider the point made by your manager - does he have any evidence to back up his claims?

OhCalmTheFuckDownMargaret · 14/03/2025 16:28

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:20

@IDontHateRainbows I am not prepared to do it though, I feel singled out and I don’t want to go as far as to say bullied, but I feel like this is intended to push me out. I have various examples of my work being good with good feedback. It simply isn’t genuine that he wants me on a PIP to ‘help me improve.’ He wants me gone.

Then you need to start looking for a job pretty fast.

butterpuffed · 14/03/2025 16:24

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:20

@IDontHateRainbows I am not prepared to do it though, I feel singled out and I don’t want to go as far as to say bullied, but I feel like this is intended to push me out. I have various examples of my work being good with good feedback. It simply isn’t genuine that he wants me on a PIP to ‘help me improve.’ He wants me gone.

Why ?

zingally · 14/03/2025 16:21

BillyNoProblems · 14/03/2025 15:55

Are you in a sales job? If so, are you meeting your targets?

If you're not in a sales role, honestly, your time is done in this role. I have been managing for 20 years and if you're being put on a PIP it's because you're not a good fit for what they need. Are they offering you a package to leave?

Either way, you need to find a new role.

I agree 100%.
The first day even the mere idea of a PIP is mentioned, is the day you start looking for a new position. Your time at that company is done, whether you feel it's justified or not.

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:20

@IDontHateRainbows I am not prepared to do it though, I feel singled out and I don’t want to go as far as to say bullied, but I feel like this is intended to push me out. I have various examples of my work being good with good feedback. It simply isn’t genuine that he wants me on a PIP to ‘help me improve.’ He wants me gone.

OP posts:
Lulubo1 · 14/03/2025 16:19

Sorry OP, I wouldn't refuse to go on the PIP. We had an employee who we put on PIP. She pushed back on everything and was awkward about it, saying she wasn't the problem and tried to blame other around her, so we let her go.

IDontHateRainbows · 14/03/2025 16:16

I work in HR. Refusing to go on a PIP is probably a fast track to getting dismissed. You need to engage with the process if there are aspects of the PIP you don't feel are reasonable then you need to discuss these. Ultimately though your employer sets the standard for the work you do but if you need, for example, some training then you should be able to suggest this.

I've overseen loads of PIPs and the very worst thing you can do is not show willing.

Sagittarius25 · 14/03/2025 16:08

agree with @MrsPinkCock

Sagittarius25 · 14/03/2025 16:08

@Gamecha well the PIP is the informal procedural process for poor performance. If someone doesn't improve their performance and meet the set targets then they haven't passed the PIP and would move to formal disciplinary action. So if you refuse the PIP it goes straight to disciplinary.

In terms of it not being raised in good faith, HR should also always be involved in the PIP process to ensure it's being set for valid and genuine reasons. Speak to HR if they are not already involved.

You would likely enter a disciplinary process for poor performance which you have failed to agree to address in a PIP process. You wouldn't be under disciplinary action for refusing the PIP itself, just the outstanding poor performance. Outcomes of disciplinary can range from verbal warning, to written warning, to final written warning, to gross misconduct and instant dismissal.

MrsPinkCock · 14/03/2025 16:06

I am an employment lawyer - no, you can’t refuse a PIP, as it isn’t optional! That’s what your employer has decided needs to happen.

I’ll be honest though and say in most cases (but not all) it’s the beginning of the end.

You can challenge the fairness of it though. Make sure they set objective and measurable criteria. If your goals are unfair compared to others doing similar work, make sure you record that with them. Provide examples to counter theirs where possible. If you want to save your job, and assuming the PIP is (objectively) fair - you need to reflect and see how you can improve, and work with them to get to the required standard.

If, after some reflection you still genuinely feel it’s objectively unfair and you’re being singled out, there’s always the option of a grievance.

OakElmAsh · 14/03/2025 16:03

Not engaging with the process will bring you closer to dismissal, not further from it.
Have you seen the PIP document ? Are the objectives they want you to meet achievable ?
Usually PIPs have very specific criteria for success, so if those are within your reach, and you're happy you'll be able to prove that throughout the process, then you won't loose anything by going along with it.
If you feel the objectives are rigged/unachievable/not appropriate for you role, that's a different kettle of fish - but dispute & negotiate the contents of the PIP with HR or your manager's manager etc, rather than the actual PIP itself.
That is if you want to fight and stay in your job - if you don't, nod along and leave when suits you (or let them push you out)

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:02

Sagittarius25 · 14/03/2025 15:59

I work in HR, no you can't really refuse to go on a PIP. as others have said, if you did it would just skip to the next stage of a formal disciplinary process where you would likely be managed out for not performing and not doing PIP to try and improve performance. If you feel that strongly that you shouldn't be on the PIP then surely you should easily be able to meet the targets that will be set out in the PIP as it's all target based, they will be set out in the introductory meeting.

@Sagittarius25 thanks, this is helpful. The reason I am against the PIP is that I do not trust that this has been suggested in good faith. I have good reason to believe he wants me to leave

Do you mean I would be disciplined for not performing well in that moment, but if I went on the PIP they would assess it instead? What would disciplining me involve?

OP posts:
TallulahBetty · 14/03/2025 16:01

Of course you can refuse. You can refuse most things in life.

Be prepared to be managed out, though.

MayaPinion · 14/03/2025 16:01

Explain to your manager why you shouldn’t be put on a PIP with evidence that the reasons for it are inaccurate (e.g. glowing appraisals, feedback from clients, evidence of hitting targets). If they still disagree take it to HR and let them investigate. You may want to raise a grievance - check your company handbook for the relevant policy and procedures.

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 16:00

TouchOfSilverShampoo · 14/03/2025 15:58

I’m pretty sure my employee is going to argue every fact on their PIP. Doesn’t stop the fact they are almost totally incapable in a professional capacity and too self-absorbed to be told otherwise.

I can evidence every point though.

I know it’s not fun op but being combative won’t help your case at all. You need to work WITH them or leave.

@TouchOfSilverShampoo i guess it is possible I have an inflated view of my abilities. It’s hard to be objective I suppose. But then again I’ve been qualified for quite a few years and never had a problem before this

OP posts:
Sagittarius25 · 14/03/2025 15:59

I work in HR, no you can't really refuse to go on a PIP. as others have said, if you did it would just skip to the next stage of a formal disciplinary process where you would likely be managed out for not performing and not doing PIP to try and improve performance. If you feel that strongly that you shouldn't be on the PIP then surely you should easily be able to meet the targets that will be set out in the PIP as it's all target based, they will be set out in the introductory meeting.

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 15:59

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@ThatLovingOpalFawn thanks…!

(I will look, I’m sad about it though)

OP posts: