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Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

190 replies

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 15:41

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

OP posts:
Ritzybitzy · 15/03/2025 09:03

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:40

I don’t want to go on the pip for a few reasons.

i don’t agree with what he’s doing and feel very much like this is personal

going on a pip means no bonus which I think would be extremely unfair

I don’t want a new employer to ask if I’ve been on a pip and I have to say yes

Those asking if there could be a reason he’s genuine and asking me to really examine my work…I obviously can’t be completely objective but I have been self critical and looked at the overall picture. I feel since I had my baby I’ve had limited work and next to no feedback despite asking for it and that other people have given me good feedback when I’ve done work for them (though he is the main source of my work, or should be).

They can do the PIP without you.

To be really clear refusing the PIP will not solve any of those issues. You still won’t get a bonus. And may well lose your job as a result.

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:56

BlondiePortz · 15/03/2025 08:54

We don't have their side but it comes across as you don't care about any other viewpoint but ypur own, you have decided you are right so does it matter what others say?

It would help you to equally listen to HR as well as speak

@BlondiePortz well I’m posting from my perspective which is all I can do. I don’t feel his ‘concerns’ are valid mostly because he’s not engaged with me at all about my work or sent me much work at all since returning from maternity leave. I’m asking if that is a reasonable context in which to query a PIP and resist it

OP posts:
BlondiePortz · 15/03/2025 08:54

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:48

@IDontHateRainbows do you not think my concerns are reasonable in my previous posts? (Not being funny, genuinely interested in your opinion)

We don't have their side but it comes across as you don't care about any other viewpoint but ypur own, you have decided you are right so does it matter what others say?

It would help you to equally listen to HR as well as speak

IDontHateRainbows · 15/03/2025 08:52

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:48

@IDontHateRainbows do you not think my concerns are reasonable in my previous posts? (Not being funny, genuinely interested in your opinion)

I think you need to go on a proper objective setting, documented Pip as your manager doesn't seem to have set that up in writing yet? Your concerns may be reasonable but no one will believe you if he just portrays it as you being a resistant underperformed in denial. So the Pip will actually help you to demonstrate your abilities and if HR are overseeing the process they can ensure it's robust.

Unfortunately you are in a guilty until proven innocent situation now as your performance is being questioned. So you need to prove you can perform, whether you think you should have to or not is irrelevant

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:48

IDontHateRainbows · 15/03/2025 08:46

I don't think you can refuse to go on a pip any more than you can refuse to do anything asked at you at work by your manager, not without objectively very good cause which you haven't demonstrated here.
The thinking from HR and senior management will be that you're resistant because you are scared of being exposed as an underperformer. If you are so great after all, the Pip would be a doddle and a good opportunity to showcase and evidence your abilities.

HR will ensure the Pip is done properly and the objectives are reasonable etc. But inside I bet they'll be eyerolling at yet another staff member who can't handle being performance managed.

@IDontHateRainbows do you not think my concerns are reasonable in my previous posts? (Not being funny, genuinely interested in your opinion)

OP posts:
IDontHateRainbows · 15/03/2025 08:46

I don't think you can refuse to go on a pip any more than you can refuse to do anything asked at you at work by your manager, not without objectively very good cause which you haven't demonstrated here.
The thinking from HR and senior management will be that you're resistant because you are scared of being exposed as an underperformer. If you are so great after all, the Pip would be a doddle and a good opportunity to showcase and evidence your abilities.

HR will ensure the Pip is done properly and the objectives are reasonable etc. But inside I bet they'll be eyerolling at yet another staff member who can't handle being performance managed.

Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:42

@Ashshandmaid yes there is a grievance process. It’s not something I would want to do but I would do if pushed. I can’t understand how him not even responding to various pieces of work (which I know are good) and then tearing down a draft letter with cosmetic changes can be in any way ‘supporting me to improve.’

OP posts:
Gamecha · 15/03/2025 08:40

I don’t want to go on the pip for a few reasons.

i don’t agree with what he’s doing and feel very much like this is personal

going on a pip means no bonus which I think would be extremely unfair

I don’t want a new employer to ask if I’ve been on a pip and I have to say yes

Those asking if there could be a reason he’s genuine and asking me to really examine my work…I obviously can’t be completely objective but I have been self critical and looked at the overall picture. I feel since I had my baby I’ve had limited work and next to no feedback despite asking for it and that other people have given me good feedback when I’ve done work for them (though he is the main source of my work, or should be).

OP posts:
Ashshandmaid · 15/03/2025 08:35

Do you have a grievance process? I'd so raise one re this. As it seems you feel he's using this as a form of bullying. If you have evidence to counteract his claims share this with hr.

Hr are there to protect to company though so remember that. I'd also say it's time to look for another job elsewhere.

PaterPower · 15/03/2025 08:32

TorroFerney · 15/03/2025 07:56

Think you are getting unions mixed up with insurers and private medical insurance who won’t cover existing medical conditions.

There’s usually a minimum period (during which you’ve been a member) before a Union will get actively involved in your dispute. I guess it’s to avoid people paying only one or two months of subs just to access advice / help and then cancelling.

And it’s not just sociopaths who’ll abuse the PIP / HR process. You must have had a fortunate career to have never encountered the many downright incompetent and clueless people who somehow get into positions where they’re ‘managing’ others.

TorroFerney · 15/03/2025 08:02

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 21:42

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

So when he said he wanted some improvement and said it vaguely did you ask for concrete examples? Did he then write to you saying as discussed etc etc, if he didn’t did you write to him ? Cold and clinical is the way to go, as a previous poster says take the emotion out of it.

are your meetings on teams , if so can you agree to either record them or get the meeting summary ?

Softleftpowerstance · 15/03/2025 07:58

I can see why you are frustrated. I agree with other posters that you do need to be forensic and ask for clarity for the nth degree while also emphasising that you haven’t been given enough work. Be really self critical regarding that though. Could he argue that you should be imitating work yourself? You say that you are not junior, so he may reasonably be expected you to identify your own work plan.

But from what you’ve said I agree with others that a PIP may actually be helpful. It will force him to document his expectations and your apparent shortcomings. This is why posters have said a PIP isn’t used lightly, it’s a pain in the arse for managers.

TorroFerney · 15/03/2025 07:56

Ritzybitzy · 14/03/2025 19:13

Pointless advice. Unions won’t advise on pre existing issues.

Think you are getting unions mixed up with insurers and private medical insurance who won’t cover existing medical conditions.

TorroFerney · 15/03/2025 07:54

the7Vabo · 14/03/2025 17:54

Again not something most people do for fun. Not all people, most people.

We can’t know the OP’s situation, but I have worked in a organisation for ten years and come across some horrendous situations when it comes to certain individuals. Including a person who said about someone new “I’m going to make them cry everyday until they leave”. Multiple people left because of that person and then of course that person didn’t get a promotion and left themselves.

So please let’s not keep saying no one would put someone on a PIP for anything other tnan
legitimate reasons, that isn’t true.

Well yes sociopaths aside!

PaterPower · 15/03/2025 07:40

A PIP isn’t a ‘plan’ if it’s just some vague waffle about how you’re just not meeting his expectations.

Do you have an HR team at work? Are they involved in this process? Are they even aware you’re being ‘managed’ (and I use the term loosely here) like this? Does this guy have someone he reports in to? If so, contact that person and make them aware.

It’s ridiculous that you can be taken from a last good review to being immediately placed on a PIP. Where’s his evidence of having discussed your ‘shortcomings’ prior to the PIP? How’s he going to be able to show he’s just not discriminating against your having taken Mat leave, when this inevitably gets taken to tribunal?

If you have a proper HR team, I would be involving them asap. They’re not there to support you, but they are there to prevent dickhead managers exposing the company to reputational harm.

BellissimoGecko · 15/03/2025 07:32

So do you get work from lots of people or just him? You said he hasn’t sent you any in two weeks. Do you have other work to do?

i think you need to keep a diary of the work you sent him, things he changed, times you asked for feedback and he didn’t send any, etc. to build your case.

otherwise I think you should go along with it, ask for feedback, put it in place, see how things go.

Could you talk to HR about the fact that you think this guy wants you out? Does he have enough proof to put you on a PIP?

runningpram · 15/03/2025 07:22

this sounds v dodgy - return from mat leave, no work, no support then pip.

IDontHateRainbows · 15/03/2025 07:07

Either
Manager wants OP out cos he doesn't like her in which case her goose is cooked and senior management will back him

Or

OP has genuine performance issues and a Pip will identify those and if she can't improve she will be rightly let go.

Either way it makes no sense to be churlish and refuse to do the Pip. If option 1 is correct that's just playing into his hands.

TeenLifeMum · 14/03/2025 22:28

If you are capable then a pip could be helpful. Manager must give clear and measurable objectives so you’ll know what’s expected, prove yourself and shut him up. Work with the process, make sure you’re happy the objectives are reasonable (you can input into them), agree any training needs and prove you can do it.

also look for another job because you are unlikely to be happy where you are even if you’re successful, it’ll leave a bitter taste. Find somewhere better before they destroy your confidence.

I completely believe you that you’ve had great previous reviews and suddenly your manager has turned. I have seen pip used like this, but also when someone is awful and can’t do the job. It’s hard work for the manager too so make him do that extra paperwork.

HappiestSleeping · 14/03/2025 22:21

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 21:42

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

That's what I mean about getting forensic in the detail. He wants improvement. What is it specifically that you didn't do that you had been asked to do? How was it wrong? What was expected? Can he give you an example of what he would have accepted? Can he show you how what he asked for was clear? Can he show you previous examples where your work was acceptable (from your statement, your previous reviews were fine), and how what you are delivering now is different? Can he demonstrate where he communicated what he expected?

That sort of thing.

MushMonster · 14/03/2025 22:18

Ritzybitzy · 14/03/2025 19:13

Pointless advice. Unions won’t advise on pre existing issues.

OP, just contact some Unions.
Here there are posters who know they will not help, but they will, most of them. Most likely you will not get any legal representation from them, but they will offer advice.

It is in your best interest to join one though. Because even if you do go through with PIP, if things get too spikey down the line, then you will have their legal side by you by then.
Citizens advice and other organisations can help you too, with advice on how to proceed and which info you need.

Verdansk84 · 14/03/2025 22:16

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 15:41

Do I have any rights? I feel like this has come out of the blue and absolutely do not feel it is justified. Can I do anything?

you said you do the work ok, whats your friendships like with your co workers are you more of a get along and keep the peace or more go to war ? and the same question but for managers

Bleeky · 14/03/2025 22:16

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 21:42

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

Your boss must be gaslighting you!

user1492538376 · 14/03/2025 22:03

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 21:42

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

Is this your direct boss? I think you need very specific feedback from him - you say he is vague - well you need to use this to your advantage ask what he wants differently, better and by when. Then do it. If he wont be specific you need to explain that you cannot improve unless you know exactly what this issues are or go above him. To be honest if you don’t know then it wont improve.

Gamecha · 14/03/2025 21:42

@Bleeky @Softleftpowerstance @HappiestSleeping @hap I suppose what I just can’t understand is how he can have made these vague statements saying he wants improvement and then not actually send me any work bar one task in two weeks? Despite me mentioning it and asking for feedback on a piece of work from a week prior which he still hadn’t commented on.

He said this week that there had been ‘no improvement on what he expected.’ I simply can’t understand how he can say that when I’ve not actually done any work for him. It feels insincere. I am not a junior member of staff and this feels very personal.

I accept there is a chance I am being deluded but it certainly feels real to me.

OP posts: