Can I refuse to go on a PIP if I don’t agree with it?

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves thanks for explaining. What you said makes complete sense.

I agree with 'bring it on'. If you as manager have gone through the trouble to do a PIP, it is to give the employee a chance and then move to get rid if they don't co-operate with the process. What manager would take a life shortening action to improve performance that still resulted in the employee being paid off if they did not.

You are taking on more work for yourself in doing the PIP by crossing your 't's and dotting your 'i's legally in order to save the company money.

Paying someone off would only encourage chancers. I imagine it is why some companies fight all non-meritorious employment tribunal cases.

true,

Formal PIPS in this way seem to have come in since I retired, but I assume that there is some sort of joint process involved in setting out the goals? If possible ensure that HR is part of this process and ensure you take the evidence that shows that a) you haven't been given work, b) that you've asked for feedback and haven't received it (if necessary take contemporaneous notes, if you have them) c) what feedback you have had hasn't been substantive and hasn't been clear on what you need to do to improve and d), most importantly, that it appears to be directly related to your return from maternity leave. Join a union if you can to help with representation. Take evidence of previous good performance. If you're happy to leave see what exit package they can offer you. Good luck.

Because part of being a manager is working out what needs to be done ( usually). I'm a manager and I literally make it up as I go along every single day, using my noggin and checking in with my boss / others if I'm unsure but if I was constantly asking what to do or how to do it I'd have been binned a long time ago. I thrive in those kind of environments but for others it may not be their thing. I do think it goes with thd territory the more senior you go. Ofc we have no idea if OP is a manager or what the culture is like where she works.

However, I was a process person, brought in to facilitate processes between internal and the external company they were using as a facilitation in the water industry. I was basically left without direction and work even when I repeatedly asked for it.

@IIlolamay I am not sure I understand why if you had a job to do (facilitate processes) that that should disappear once you got a new manager? Surely you just do more of the same?

OP's situation sounds similar in that she has to keep asking her manager for work.

If that is the case, and no work is forthcoming, then that the role is redundant surely.

For the most part, a PIP is just a plan to manage you out of the business. You can't refuse to be placed on a PIP although you have the right to appeal any formal warnings/dismissal that comes out of it. However, if I was you, I would begin looking for another job.

I was in the same situation as you in a previous employment. The manager that recruited me left and they gave his job to a woman who was a lawyer. On paper we should have got on famously as our personal backgrounds were really similar. However, I was a process person, brought in to facilitate processes between internal and the external company they were using as a facilitation in the water industry. I was basically left without direction and work even when I repeatedly asked for it. I started emailing my line manager and the overall manager asking for work, what they wanted me to do etc with no replies. If you're in the same position I suggest you start emailing your manager asking for work, direction etc and keeping your emails and his/her replies as evidence. I was lucky as I worked in the public sector had been with the organisation forever and had good contacts and higher level managers I had worked with so found it easy to get another job when it came up and had several opportunities to work on projects. Evidence is key so start collecting. Good luck.

You're playing into his hands, which may be what he wants.

If you have evidence you're already meeting the PIP targets it shouldn't be hard to close this off quickly.

If you think its actually bullying then open a grievance

I’ll be honest with you. A PIP is a nice way of giving you a chance to resign before they sack you. At this point, justification is irrelevant because they’ll find some way to justify it. Start job hunting NOW, hold your head high and resign as fast as you can.
good luck. If you’re good, you’ll be fine. X

If he wants you to leave, the PIP could be suggested to force you to over react and refuse.

I'd take a witness and ask him to evidence where you've failed to perform, why hes jumping straight to formal PIP l, what the PIP targets are and what support is being provided to ensure you unskill in line with it?

If you're on a PIP he's responsible for setting SMART targets and offering training to help you meet them.

She means Personal Improvement Plan at work.

Because management is literally about initiative.

The job specification morphs from when a person is hired because change is a given in any organisation. Usually when it is a senior level hire, the employment contract will essentially say you do what it takes to get the job done and part of a job being senior is that you define what needs to be done in order to achieve the outcome.

I agree with the posters below that if this is a senior job, that she should be able to work things out for herself, articulate what the scope of her job is, go out and do it rather than sit back and wait for work/instructions or guidance. It is perhaps frustrating for her manager who is newer in the role to have to 'feed' work to the OP and explain to her if she is a senior hire. OP said she was told she does not need to find work but perhaps she should try to make connections to find work other than asking her manager all the time?

OP does not say she is in a senior role but it sounds like she is experienced and she has said she is not a junior member of staff. She needs to clarify this.

OP also has not clarified whether she came back from sick leave or maternity leave or both and how long she was away for. A long period of absence may have implications. It could be her role has since been parceled out and it is now redundant and the PIP is a sneaky way to avoid redundancy or a discrimination suit.

It's more so that if, say there was a company that sells bottles of water, at an entry level you would expect to be told how to bottle the water, and how many you are supposed to bottle in a day. At a senior level, you're supposed to know that along with things you aren't explicitly told - like if half the bottles are leaking you need to find out why that is and fix it. So it won't be in a job description, but good performers will know when there's a problem they need to solve, and not be wandering around going "No one told me to look for holes in the bottles"

not that i disagree but more as a puzzlement at some times it seems why can alot of it be a guessing game as to what your ment to be doing to avoid the performance plan as in your hired to do x tasks but then it seems theres a whole lot of what you should also do for the role but its unwritten so to speak, so its like why not just put that in the job specification to begin with ?

Yes I've overseen pips for mid level management a couple of times and taking the initiative/ working out for yourself what you do was definitely an element. The more senior the role, the less prescriptive the Pip. I've done them entirely competency based for management level.

No. There is no option. You have no choice, so if you don't want to go on the PiP, your only other option is to resign. It doesn't matter whether you think it's fair or not.

100% … it should be easy!

You mention being on sick leave and being on maternity leave. If both, how long exactly have you been absent from your position? Could this be why they think you may no longer be able to do the job you were employed for?

It has been mentioned by employment lawyers and HR the position with being placed on improvement, but you still seem to be holding onto the idea you can resist or decline and that you don't agree with it because you are more qualified and you've been there longer than the manager.

Are you able to see how this response could be perceived? Be very careful you don't play into their hands here.

OP I've read all your posts but I'm not clear if you have actually been given anything in writing or if this has all just been vague comments about putting you on a formal PIP? If it's the latter that is really concerning and not how the process should work. I mentioned up thread that I am currently doing an informal PIP with one of my team. Absolutely everything is documented in writing. She has been given her PIP in writing, I have taken her through it step by step and what i need her to achieve and by when. I meet with her every other day to check in and see if she is ok and to give her feedback on what she's doing well and what she needs to focus on. She knows she can contact me whenever she needs to and i have directed her to both her union and our employee assistance if she needs to talk to anyone else. She is struggling to engage but I have to keep trying because that is the process and I am genuinely concerned that she is finding the basics of her role so challenging. I couldn't just vaguely threaten formal PIP which is what you have implied is happening to you.

If you are not in a union, why not join one? -

Because it's pointless. They don't take on pre existing issues so it won't help in this case.

One thing that has me wondering - depending on how senior you are, waiting to be given work rather than going finding what needs doing, and getting that done, could be a major performance issue

Definitely doesn't apply to all roles though, but have they made any comments about proactivity/self sufficiency?

The other concern is that there actually isn't enough work around, and they need to downsize - and this is a way of doing that under the radar

If you don’t have any deficiencies then go on the PIP and show that. The point is meant to be that you can improve. If you don’t engage with it, it will just expedite capability proceedings against you.

I realise there are bad and good people in every walk of life, but in my experience a PIP has only ever been used for “what it says on the tin” to literally help the person improve their performance with specific targets and agreed methods to achieve them. If you feel your manager has been vague so far, a PIP would 100% resolve this. It kind of depends on the specific situation with the formality of things leading up to a PIP though. Some people can have an informal chat about performance and that’s all that’s needed, others respond better to a more formal style. Perhaps your manager feels you’re more of the second type of person? Either way it’s best to start off with a positive attitude, you’re extremely unlikely to receive any settlement to leave currently.

My answer is not it's not a reasonable context to resist the Pip. If escalated, I bet my bottom dollar the next manager up would be like 'ok well let's set you some objectives and clarity and see how you get on, using the pip'. The only way off a pip is through.