If a patient requests same sex care and a doctor lies to them and performs intimate care, that should be a sex crime

@thenosiesttermagantexactly. Medicine has no place for this absolute nonsense. If you want to be part of a cult which claims to believe literally mad and impossible fantasies about the human body, that's your own business, but you cannot then also be a practising clinician and occupy a role in society in which honesty and probity are absolutely key, along with a very detailed understanding of human biology. It's one or the other.

I simply cannot imagine what the GMC is thinking to allow this man and others like him to continue to practice while taking the piss out of women, biology and the entire medical establishment, or what the Trust was thinking in employing him. Are they going to allow people to turn up at work as doctors dressed up as witches, animals, satanic preachers or aliens? I don't think so.

BTW, I do of course believe that people with disabilities, mental health problems etc etc should be able to work as doctors, and have known many who have been excellent doctors (I am a doctor). But the type and extent of disability or problem can be very relevant. Someone with an IQ of 50, for example, is not going to be acceptable, no matter what supports are in place. That is the sad reality for severely learning disabled people who would have liked to go to medical school. It just can't happen. The same goes for people with delusional ideation which affects their understanding of reality, especially biological and medical reality. People who are severely dishonest are also precluded from continuing to practice. Upton is either very learning disabled, deluded, or dishonest. I couldn't possibly say which...but whichever it is, why is he working as a doctor?

The mind boggles.

Aside of the deciet of removing a patients choice by omission of his gender surely sexual assault is chiefly about the intent? So does he intend to treat a patient with a sensitive medical need and do nothing but treat their condition, or does he intend to sexually assault them? There's a difference surely? It must be possible to carry out a medical procedure without sexually assaulting the patient regardless of what you identified as?

If his intent is to carry out an intimate examination/ procedure without consent (ie the patient not having consented to a man doing it) then I don't think it matters whether his motivation is overtly sexual or not, it should still be an offence.

But the trans people who want to access changing rooms, swimming sessions, spa treatments ARE not to be trusted.

A TIM claiming he is a woman is not to be trusted in any situation.

We know abusers will go to great lengths to abuse, training as a teacher or a priest, marrying a parent with children, even having their own child to abuse.

It is naïve to think an abuser would not exploit the easy option of claiming to be a woman.

Prisoners who have become trans women either before trial or while in prison usually revert back to being men when they leave prison.

I really hope she wins. If she doesn't more of this shit-show is in the offing with the NHS and also private health care.

If a person is willing to not uphold the truth about the sex that they materially are, why do people believe that there are not other things that you cannot trust to be true about that same person?

What is it about people effectively lying about their sex inspires others to believe their interpretation of anything else in the world?

Indeed Sernie.

But it’s ridiculous to assume that the only reason a trans woman would have trained as a doctor or other HCP was for access to womens bodies,

Men, which are the category transwomen are part of, have trained as all manner of professions in order to gain access to women and children. History is littered with examples and once it hits the headlines we all hear it should never have happened, will never happen again, safeguarding must be paramount which turns into empty rhetoric time and time and time again.

Informed consent is non negotiable to disregard that and allow deception about the sex of a person drives a coach and horses through safeguarding.

They may not have specifically gone into medicine for that reason, but that doesn't mean that they don't discover it is one of the perks of the job along the way.

Some doctors sexually abuse their patients. It's a thing.

Some doctors sexually abuse their patients. It's a thing.

They do.

Add to that the incidents of sexual assault within the NHS for both those who work within it and those who access it are horrendously high.

I know someone who was a hospital nurse (she's retired now) and she talks very bluntly about the fact that a hospital is a high stress environment where you see humans at their most basic and vulnerable, there are men and women working in close proximity at weird hours, and when you put that together, you get other forms of risky behaviour. She said it wasn't unusual to find doctors shagging in a cupboard. There was an anesthetist recently (I think in Spain) where the nurses caught him putting his penis in the mouth of anesthetized female patients during surgery. And there are so many others.

This is from a story on the BBC News website, dated 23 May 2023, about sexual misconduct or violence in NHS.

"Although more than 4,000 NHS staff were accused of rape, sexual assault, harassment, stalking, or abusive remarks towards other staff or patients in 2017-22, the BMJ and Guardian investigation found that only 576 have faced disciplinary action."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65671018.amp

The largest child abuse trial in France’s history will be starting next week.

It involves a former surgeon who “allegedly” raped and assaulted 299 children, most of whom were his patients.

Trigger Warning as the details are extremely disturbing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyz0v97257o.amp

That is extremely disturbing, ChersFrozenFace. Why is the NHS, GMC, NMC etc seemingly so reluctant to do anything about abuse?

There was an anethetist recently (I think in Spain) where the nurses caught him putting his penis in the mouth of anesthetized female patients during surgery.

Brazil I think.

And then there is the infamous case in UK of a woman raped on a ward where the NHS lied repeatedly to Police that it was impossible because there were no men on the ward but eventually conceded that there was in fact a man on the ward a man who claimed to be a woman.

Didn't they have CCTV of the case in the UK? Once they stopped lying obviously.

So think this in young men going into gyne etc. There is room to become perverted even if it was not the original reason for training and they will get turned on some of the time.

We also know unfortunately a certain percentage of people will be drawn to a profession where people are vulnerable.

Not that this has much to do with trans but there should be consent granted for whom treats you, not trickery or deceit.

I think so but it all went very quiet and seems to have been brushed under the carpet. I know Baroness Nicholson was investigating/raising it. The NHS had lied to the Police for three years.