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For not wanting DH to drive with the kids in the car

114 replies

Evecob · 31/08/2024 18:57

So today we were supposed to be having a fun family day out,.. we have 3 kids. We usually all take turns playing music we like when we take a road trip (only 1 hour this time), but the kids were on their tablets and didnt want to do this, DH was driving and also didnt want to as he was in a foul mood, and put his own headphones in blocking out everyone. I put on music through the car as usual, as I had no headphones of my own. Usually the music would be played really loud, but as everyone else was doing their own thing and my DH wanted the music lower, i reduced it from 15 to 9. Im autistic (undiagnosed) but musoc is a big stim for me and i get a lot of enjoyment from it, im always singing to myself and its a way i enjoy expressing myself. Dh knows this. When he saw me enjoying the music he reduced the volume to a volume i couldnt really hear it.
I left it on 8... he then turned on the sat nav to speak directions, i asked him why he did that when he has his own headphones in because she couldnt be heard, lower than my music, because the sound was already so low. He said he will know because the sound will disappear so will know to look at the sat nav... (?) he has his own headphones in so this made no sense to me...

Time went by, and a song of mine finished, the next one was really quiet so i turned it up to hear it, and he flipped. Started revving harder while driving shouting about how selfish i am, threw his phone over in my direction, ripped his earphones out and threw them violently at me, one hit my neck and then fell on the floor. All i could think was he was in a temper and we and kids are not safe. I told him to pull over asap and i will drive the rest of the way. He did but stomped about doing so and refused to speak to me the rest of the way. The kids asked what we were doing, i just said mummys driving now, luckily the kids didnt notice anything else, so i spent the rest of the trip light hearted and didnt want to ruin the day. DH spent most of it storming off on his own but the kids and me were so happy they didnt really notice anything amiss.

He didnt apologise about his behaviour, and when i brought it up in a quiet moment telling him his behavioir was dangerous and i dont want him driving the kids anywhere, he stormed off.

Im not sure what i can really do in this situation. But i dont feel comfortable. He has a history of aggressive behaviour, already had anger management sessions, individual and couples therapy, neither have worked out. He refuses to continue individual therapy.

OP posts:
Evecob · 08/09/2024 17:22

wombat1a · 01/09/2024 01:27

I can easily understand using earphones to block out the really annoying sounds of others while driving. That said it shouldn't happen because he shouldn't need to the block out the sounds. Then telling the father of your children he can't drive with them in the car is controlling and a red flag to a bull.
You need to separate.

Update...

I did report him to the police via the online report system thanks to some of your advice on here. I got a callback and had an interview with someone. Discussed our relationship etc. I decided not to take it further....then received a phone call a few days later from them asking me to come down to the station. I said I would later this week.
DH is definitely suspicious as i left the room to take the call. He questioned me about it after and i dont think he believed the reason i gave.

Since then i have discussed the driving situation with him. This might sound ridiculous but it didnt occur to me at the time about him wearing headphones as dangerous.. it seems very obvious now you all pointed it out, so thank you... neither of us have done that before, ever. Its very much usual for us to play the radio or our own music as a family and no headphones.

However when i pointed out his dangerous driving, and how he put us in danger while driving, his headphone hitting me etc, his responses were "cool" and "ok"... literally no emotion or care. There was no sorry or any accountability .. or attempt to convince me it wont happen again. So i told him because of his reaction to our discussion as well i think its best I drive the children. He said "ok, whatever"

Days after, he has mentioned situations where he would need to drive the children without actually saying it, but iv reminded him about me driving. He gets moody and says nothing.

He has been to anger management in the past, as part of our couples counselling, and attempted individual counselling for his anger but only because I asked him to. He stopped going and didnt pursue further help when they told him he needs more help.

Am i wrong for continuing with this boundary? This comment above seems to think I am a red flag but i want to protect myself and my kids. Please help me if i am wrong or if there is a healthier way for me to go about this?

OP posts:
wombat1a · 01/09/2024 01:27

I can easily understand using earphones to block out the really annoying sounds of others while driving. That said it shouldn't happen because he shouldn't need to the block out the sounds. Then telling the father of your children he can't drive with them in the car is controlling and a red flag to a bull.
You need to separate.

WhamBamThankU · 01/09/2024 00:47

He sounds abusive and like a dangerous driver with headphones in, but also, you shouldn't call yourself autistic without a diagnosis. Many people do that these days and it lessens the seriousness of actually diagnosed people.

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 01/09/2024 00:30

You need to leave this man as soon as it is safe to do so. The abuse will only get worse and will at some point probably be directed to your children as well.

But leaving safely is key, as I think you're aware.

Speak to womens aid, and Refuge, both charities can provide a lot of advice and support.

It's also possible to get a free restraining order against him, should you need one.

Don't make a plan for coping and managing his behaviour. This relationship is beyond saving and he won't change.

Do make a plan to get yourself into a position where you can leave the relationship safely, as soon as (safely) possible.

And - making an assumption here about how your autism may present, so apologies if I'm wrong - don't let perfect be the enemy of good when it comes to the Plan to Leave Safely.

You don't need to have all the answers up front. You just need to be able to leave him and survive financially while you get a divorce going. Everything else will come.

pinkdelight · 31/08/2024 22:49

Both parents behaved appallingly and with utter disregard for their children's safety and needs.

Agree with this. He is abusive and should absolutely not be wearing headphones. She is dangerously wrapped up in herself to be prioritising her sensory issues over safety on the road. Both adults are prolonging a dysfunctional marriage that is putting the DC at risk both in short term acute situations like this needless conflict in the car, and in long term psychological ways that could be just as harmful by modelling messed up relationships. No one is saying it'll be easy, OP, but that's not a reason to stay in this marriage that neither of you really wants to be in. Get help irl and start getting your head around how to leave an abusive marriage. Women on here have gone through it too and it is possible and the right thing to do.

yorkiel · 31/08/2024 22:02

From the minute he decided to wear headphones in the car he put all of your lives at risk, not to mention the aggressive driving. Your kids absolutely noticed what was happening, as people have said, they notice everything even if they pretend they don't.
I know it's easy for strangers on the internet to say but he really does sound abusive. You need to ask yourself what it'll take for you to put your foot down and leave him because if he's already shown physical aggression I'd be really worried about what he'll do the next time he loses his temper

fuffymeloncauli · 31/08/2024 22:01

BreadInCaptivity · 31/08/2024 21:52

*You can’t understand autism if you don’t appreciate how sound sensory issues are physically painful.

asking for your disability to be accommodated isn’t the same as simply dictating music choice*


@StressyDepressy

Really??

This isn't about accommodation of an undiagnosed disability.

Even if the OP was diagnosed isn't not a green light to expose your children to a dangerous situation to address sensory issues.

If you are a passenger it's not appropriate (actually dangerous) to behave in a way that is distracting to the driver. Be that music/singing/chatter - whatever.

Honestly some of the responses to this are bizarre.

Both parents behaved appallingly and with utter disregard for their children's safety and needs.

As a person with sensory issues myself I do understand OP but I have to agree here. It's dangerous. Whatever the driver wants re music/sound levels is priority.

He still shouldn't have been using headphones though and he as an absolutely abusive arse.

BreadInCaptivity · 31/08/2024 21:52

*You can’t understand autism if you don’t appreciate how sound sensory issues are physically painful.

asking for your disability to be accommodated isn’t the same as simply dictating music choice*


@StressyDepressy

Really??

This isn't about accommodation of an undiagnosed disability.

Even if the OP was diagnosed isn't not a green light to expose your children to a dangerous situation to address sensory issues.

If you are a passenger it's not appropriate (actually dangerous) to behave in a way that is distracting to the driver. Be that music/singing/chatter - whatever.

Honestly some of the responses to this are bizarre.

Both parents behaved appallingly and with utter disregard for their children's safety and needs.

StressyDepressy · 31/08/2024 21:29

RedHelenB · 31/08/2024 21:12

Driver dictates the music or lack of. Him being aggressive isn't on . You being undiagnosed autistic shouldn't have a bearing on either point.

You can’t understand autism if you don’t appreciate how sound sensory issues are physically painful.

asking for your disability to be accommodated isn’t the same as simply dictating music choice

StressyDepressy · 31/08/2024 21:28

Evecob · 31/08/2024 19:37

I know it may not seem like it but i am trying to do what will be best for the kids. A divorce with someone who seems to be a malignant narcissist is more complicated than you think. Its easy to say get out and leave from the outside. Courts will likely go 50 50 custody, this would not be good for the kids. I would rather be around them the majority of the time. He generally spends a lot of time doing his own thing so we dont have to put up with his behaviours much. I grey rock usually and correct behaviour for the kids so they dont get gaslit. Im teaching them about empathy and trying to be the influence for them they need. I document everything. Im in therapy myself and trying to stay grounded.

You’re doing really well even to get him to therapy and anger management. In a way this is harder because it shows you he has been trying.

you’ve met his boundary though when he’s refused further counselling.

I have a relative who is a narcissist (not malignant) . I appreciate what they care about is power and control above all else. Anyone who’s ever met children knows that they cannot and will not be able to be meek, pliable etc. He will meet their boundary.

i think you’ve got every chance that he will fight for 50/50 but there’s no way in hell he will want 50% custody when having the kids without you making them compliant. You smoothe the household. Without you I appreciate it may be scary but it will not be sustainable

if you can’t face a break yet - report report report to women’s aid, GP, social services etc. get it documented. Get to a place where you feel freedom - to make a choice or to stay. If you felt true freedom you would t stay in a million years.

you manipulate him well enough now to know once separated how to give him the illusion of power over you and the kids - whilst giving you the safety of having full time custody of the kids Flowers

RedHelenB · 31/08/2024 21:12

Driver dictates the music or lack of. Him being aggressive isn't on . You being undiagnosed autistic shouldn't have a bearing on either point.

BarbedButterfly · 31/08/2024 21:08

I was this child. At least 50% of the time I would have been safe and it would have also shown me that you don't have to live like that. It isn't normal to constantly be careful or worried. I noticed everything.

parietal · 31/08/2024 21:07

Staying is not best for the kids. They are learning very dysfunctional ways of interacting and will be affected by every fight.

When there is a fight, DONT act breezy afterwards. That just teaches the kids that fighting is ok. It is better to exaggerate being scared and upset and make sure both the kids and 'D'H know the fighting is wrong.

If you separate, they won't see any more fights and if their dad can't parent then you'll get more time.

LittleMissLateForWorkAgain · 31/08/2024 21:00

For a start, he shouldn't be on the road. He could kill you and dc just mindlessly driving in rage and he could kill someone else.
Imagine if a child stepped in front of a car driven by this raging man not concentrating on driving because all he s thinking of is how angry he is?

Also your dc WILL know. They are probably too scared to say anything and rock the boat or bring that towering rage down on themselves.

I can't imagine it was really a pleasant day out for any of you?

If you are already in therapy can you explore why you feel you should take this treatment from someone who is supposed to love you?

I bet it WILL be hard to leave but you will feel like a weight has been lifted, you are living on the edge, full of anxiety every waking second.

Yes there is a risk he will get dc 50/50 but I bet he won't want that, too much parenting on his own.

And dc will vote with their feet when older and can make their choices to see him or not.
If you can report any abuse to police it would be taken into account when giving access.

Good luck and stay safe, OP

ineedtogwtoutbeforeitatoohot · 31/08/2024 20:49

There was far too much going on. No one should be driving with earphones on for a start. Why can't you all just have the radio on and listen to that. It's bonkers. Your kids would have noticed don't kid yourself. Parents need to act grown up not like children.

WhyamIinahandcartandwherearewegoing · 31/08/2024 20:45

BreadInCaptivity · 31/08/2024 19:52

@CucumberBagel and she should leave for that reason.

But it's not helpful to suggest that her behaviour in this specific situation was on point.

It wasn't.

If my DH had suggested headphones while driving that would be my cue to say I will drive as it's not safe.

She repeatedly kept turning the music up as a passenger after the driver had turned it down.

This is also in the context that she knows he's an aggressive twat. So why bait the bear and put your kids a risk so you can sing along to xyz music?

He acted in an unsafe way in the car and so did she.

100% agree with this.

AgileGreenSeal · 31/08/2024 20:36

Crazydoglady1980 · 31/08/2024 19:34

It sounds like you and your children are victims of domestic abuse. Just because things aren’t as bad as they were, does mean they are not bad now. You and your children could have been seriously hurt today.
You need to get support to leave, your children are already buying into the ‘everything is fine’ narrative, while probably being as scared, if not more, than you were today. You have been able to message about it on here, who do your children have to talk to about it? They can’t talk to you because everyone is pretending that everything is fine. (Sorry if this sounds harsh, but is it true?)

The children will have to be with him alone for contact. It’s horrible.

AgileGreenSeal · 31/08/2024 20:33

StressyDepressy · 31/08/2024 19:22

This entirely.

children adapt, they learn very quickly how to pacify and pretend.

have a look at the children salt experiment where 4 year olds tell their parents that the jelly they’ve made (which tastes vile) is delicious.

your children have started to look after you

The children won’t be divorcing him though. They will be court-ordered to spend a considerable amount of time for the rest of their childhood in his presence, without their mother.

AgileGreenSeal · 31/08/2024 20:29

Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2024 19:11

Time for a divorce because you're all out of options and you can't carry on living this way. Please stop deluding yourself that your children don't notice the antics of their rage-fueled, violent father. They notice everything.

They do indeed. And while the mother can escape from a violent abusive rage-fueled man her children sadly will still have to spend a considerable amount of time in his presence for the rest of their childhood, without their mother being there with them, because his emotional abuse / coercive control will not impair his entitlement to contact time with them.
He will probably get every other weekend and a night or two mid-week.
This is truly heartbreaking.

AgileGreenSeal · 31/08/2024 20:25

AlisonDonut · 31/08/2024 19:26

The kids will have noticed.

Sorry love but you are in an abusive relationship and you need to get you and the kids out.

I agree, she needs to be safe and have a place where her children can experience safety. He will still have the children for contact, though, which is heartbreaking.

DdraigGoch · 31/08/2024 20:20

Never mind driving with the kids in, he shouldn't be driving at all if he can't control his temper.

witheringbook · 31/08/2024 20:16

He drives with headphones in?

I'd start with that before the rest of it. That's massively unsafe!

simpledeer · 31/08/2024 20:13

I think it’s time to draw a line under this and get lawyered up.

He is dangerous. You need to make plans to leave him safely.

Awfulaunty · 31/08/2024 20:10

Aquamarine1029 · 31/08/2024 19:11

Time for a divorce because you're all out of options and you can't carry on living this way. Please stop deluding yourself that your children don't notice the antics of their rage-fueled, violent father. They notice everything.

Hmmm. Yes, I'd tend to agree and I usually roll my eyes at the instant 'divorce' replies.

I grew up with a father who I loved (and still love) but was aggressive and unpredictable. I cannot tell you how much that being unsafe and hypervigilant has affected me, every facet of my life, even into adulthood. My mum who obviously was also there and suffered in her own way I think tended to assume we children didn't notice too much or were 'used to it' and so it didn't affect us too much. That's not to criticise her but she is seeing it through adult-to-adult eyes, whereas the adult-to-child dynamic is very different - there a lot less rational processing and a lot more powerlessness. It'll fuck you up I'm telling you, please don't underestimate it.

OP obviously only you know the full situation and your preparedness to leave, emotionally and financially - so saying 'just leave' isn't super helpful but if I were you I'd start thinking about how.

As I said I love my dad but even from when I was a very small child I knew in my heart that I think my mum should have left him, taken us, and not looked back.