To wish I could stop paying into the utterly broken NHS black hole

It needs root and branch reform, not more money slung at it. Whether this government is brave enough to do it remains to be seen.🤷‍♀️

That's fine - at the moment. But in countries where private healthcare is the norm, it only works so far: once you have X cancer, or X neurological condition, or X mental health condition, you are no longer covered and have to pay as you go. What then?

Do you realise there are many, many alternative systems that aren't simply 100% private or 100% state funded?

In Germany insurance is compulsory, but it's underwritten by the government so that if you can't afford it it's covered. No one falls through the gap. It's affordable and works incredibly well.

People seem to think it's either the NHS or the American system which simply isn't true.

Which countries are you referring to? This certainly isn't the case in France and Germany.

Taking on a German model would work if we were all German and didn't insist on e.g. painkillers for every little twinge!

One of the reasons we have much higher healthcare costs than we used to is because of longer life expectancy. However, another one is higher expectations of quality of life. There is nothing wrong with having a high expectation of quality of life, but we do have higher expectations than some other developed nations.

We also are much, much less active than Germans and have higher average BMI/rates of obesity despite lower calorie consumption.

I don't know much about the German health insurance system but see my later post about German health, healthcare, and expectations.

"That's fine - at the moment. But in countries where private healthcare is the norm, it only works so far: once you have X cancer, or X neurological condition, or X mental health condition, you are no longer covered and have to pay as you go. What then?" Well @GinnyPiggie I will leave it to @CornflowerSky as she has responded much better than I can.

But to reiterate: our only options are not a failing NHS or an abusive US-style private system.

National Insurance contributions don't only fund the NHS.

Yes, the NHS needs better funding (and better management). But nobody wants to pay more - do they? Hence the very long threads about rumoured tax increases.

My mother had cancer treatment in 2008 and it was dealt with so quickly from concern to referral to surgery to chemo. It was actually very tricky to pick up and the GP was 50:50 about the referral. The consultant found it straight away and confirmed it with tests.Waiting times were short. Then in 2010 we had Cameron, Osborne and austerity. By 2011 when she saw her consultant for her regular check up, she told my mother that the trust was cutting back her NHS clinical hours. After going to a couple more check ups and being examined by more junior doctors because the consultant was so jammed for time, my mother ended up switching to seeing her privately for check ups through health insurance.

If you cut funding, over time, this is what happens. Missed diagnoses and policies that take referrals out of the hands of experts and put them in the hands of accountants.

That’s just not true.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/

You have to expand the chart to see the U.K.

Why do you think that paying for it in a different way would automatically make it better?

Would you not wind up paying the same or more for care in an insurance system as a taxation funded system?

The NHS monopoly purchase power reduces drug prices which is in itself a huge good.

The NHS is evidence based invasive surgery when 50% self rectify sounds like a bad idea. What have they proposed as a plan? Watch and wait I'm guessing. You can ask for a second opinion.

I've always found secondary care in the NHS excellent it's primary care that is difficult to access in our area.

If you're earning 30k you aren't paying much at all, and it is worth it in case you have an accident. I broke my arm last year and I must say the care was better than I expected and my arm is fixed with pins etc.

I understand how frustrating it can be though.

I've always found secondary care in the NHS excellent it's primary care that is difficult to access in our area.

Agreed.

Healthcare spending per capita, OECD countries:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29#how-much-does-the-uk-spend-on-healthcare-compared-with-its-international-peers-

Yes, this is part of the frustration of these conversations: countries with different models are largely just paying for a similar thing (massive monopoly) but perhaps separate it from government, for example - which is a good thing, as it can enable long-term planning. But you've still essentially got a state-wide system.

How do you work out that one quarter of your wages goes to the NHS? You are a net beneficiary by miles.

For starters, health tourists need to be turned away if they don't have the relevant insurance to cover them.

I understand the need to rant but I think you have misunderstood how taxes work. There is no way that you are being charged a weeks worth of wages every month for the NHS.

If you earn less than £30k you aren't really a net contributor so an average will be getting more benefit from government services that you pay for. Private Healthcare is all well and good until there is an emergency when you are shipped straight back to the NHS in ambulance.

I’m sure there are lots of different ways that healthcare could be delivered in the U.K. and changes will be made over time. It may be that the NHS can’t deliver what we expect from it under the current funding model.

Decisions should be made based on facts not feelings or ideology. There seems to be a gap between public perception of NHS funding and our own contributions to it and actual funding.

Some of your comments are unreasonable particularly around the finances of it all but on the whole you’re not. I’ve had similar issues with GPs and smear tests. I’ve recently gone private for a birth injury (that the NHS missed) and was told by the gyno that due to my history of grade 3 abnormal cells I should be having a smear test every year for 10 years. I specifically asked about this at my post natal check up having read it online and was told by my GP I was wrong - but I’m not. That was after having to go private for my smear test that highlighted the cells in the first place due to an inability to get an appointment. The grade of my cells meant I should have been seen on the 2 week pathway and AGAIN the GP told me I was wrong (when I was right). When I finally heard from the hospital about an appointment for a colposcopy they told me that it was delayed because my GP didn’t make the referral at all until they chased it up as I’d gone to PALS there directly.
My child was also recently very ill and whilst most of the professionals on the ground were incredible at their jobs, I saw complete incompetence in management and communication that put her life at risk. I can now see why people die who shouldn’t, including young children, and I felt very fearful for anyone who is not able to push back, ask questions or does not speak English very well.
My birth and the births of almost all my friends have been a total shit show but I won’t go into that.

Sorry you’re going through such a stressful time.

I don’t understand why your GP isn’t referring you for the symptoms you are having? My relative had spotting and had all manner of scans and examinations (with a biopsy) at our local hospital. Surely it’s not about a smear test battle - it’s a referral on a potential cancer pathway?

(Not read whole thread).
Why won't they just do a hysterectomy? I had one 15yrs ago after two bouts of severe CIN and having two dc's. I'm glad it's been ticked off my to do list.