To wish I could stop paying into the utterly broken NHS black hole

Yes, but it’s still lots of people not contributing! Whether by actually doing work or paying taxes.

The Tories destroyed the NHS. People voted Labour in to fix it but it can only be done if we get out of the "Tax cuts good / tax rises bad" mindset set by the tabloid press. You get what you pay for. And going private - as you have found - is way more expensive than any tax increase.

Absolutely agree. What a shitshow reading through the thread and seeing all the posters completely ignore the point of the post and gleefully start going on about how great their maths is. Empathy bypass is bang on.

Brown and Blair also did the same tax cuts good, rises bad mantra too!

We as a country have had that for a few decades now.

Brown brought in a new Lower 10% tax rate and starter O% corporation tax rate. Also brought in tax credits, increased ISA allowances etc.

Successive governments have consistently sent the message of lower taxes by all kinds of different incentives etc.

You really can’t blame it solely on the Tories!

Although for context, under in the Bliar / Brown years, partly hidden by badly negotiated PFI that some trusts are still suffering with, the NHS delivered worse patient outcomes than any other ‘first world’ health service. And that was after 13 years of significant spending increases.

The NHS is unable to deliver world class healthcare in its existing structure. Failure to reform means continued reform by the back door…which is the increasing privatisation by stealth started by the last Labour government. At least the Tory’s are open about it.

Labour, let’s not forget, brought in 100 privately funded hospitals, privately run dialysis clinics in 2008, and outsourced most community care through the ‘Transforming Community Care’ initiative. Arguably leading to the crisis in community care we now face.

No government understands how or can be trusted to deliverer a fit for purpose, never mind world class, heath service as long as its (a) subject to short term polictal interference and (b) held to ransom by its staff.

Although for context, under in the Bliar / Brown years, partly hidden by badly negotiated PFI that some trusts are still suffering with, the NHS delivered worse patient outcomes than any other ‘first world’ health service. And that was after 13 years of significant spending increases

Can you verify that? And what about the last 14 years?

Which bit would you like verifying? The worse patient outcomes? Take a look here:

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/51215/1/__libfile_REPOSITORY_Content_CASE_CASE%20Social%20policy%20in%20a%20cold%20climate%20series_Working%20papers_spccwp02_full%20text.pdf

Page 11

Or perhaps the scale of privatisation under the last Labour government? For that you could look here:

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/07/forty-years-of-nhs-privatisation

And yes, I agree, the last government should have put more emphasis on NHS reform, to give the taxpayer the same type of service our European neighbours get. They failed as well.

That’s why we need to take tribal politics, failed ideology and dogma driven focus on ‘because NHS’ out of the equation.

You’ve quite deliberately cherry picked from the report at your first link. Look at the first para of the conclusions on p12. I’ve tried really hard to copy and paste it but it’s not having it! It says there was 70% public satisfaction with the NHS in 2010 and - this is very telling - demand for private health insurance was down.

I’ve just highlighted a fact. The NHS delivered worse outcomes than many other healthcare systems. As set in in an independent report. No one’s disputing that it didn’t improve. The point is, despite all the spending and all the improvement, other health care models consistently deliver better outcomes. I just think that the public is entitled to better outcomes than the NHS can deliver.

You’ve cherry picked the 70% satisfaction number, if you want to be petty. Sure, they were happier than they had been - although almost a third of people weren’t. But in isolation it means little.

You’re of course free to disagree on better healthcare outcomes being important, and you might well choose to put the NHS as a system as above reproach with the impact on patients being acceptable collateral damage. But the facts say otherwise. And I think the public is entitled to better. And better is achievable under different models.

I note you have chosen not to comment on the level of privatisation and long term damage through piecemeal fiddling with the model rather than reform under the last Labour government, and subsequent coalition / Tory ones as well…. That’s why it needs reform.

Worth noting also, now I remember, that one of the reasons take up of private healthcare was down in the period was the the Labour government abolished the tax relief that one used to be able to get, if over 60. So I’m not sure that particular statistic tells you what you think it’s telling you.

It’s one of the report’s conclusions. Better take it up with its authors. 🤷‍♀️

All the details are here.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01441/SN01441.pdf

The Labour Party fibbers there hi tax illegality there there to make all pore socialists (robbers)👿

The conservative reform party are more succure no one should be throne a pandemic then throun out

Note they don’t agree

No conservative reform party built NHS unions destroy most things what industrial action ever done much good

Unreasonable colonist

Blair brown years the biggest deficit ever

This is the deficit labour inherited

But starter or stamper removing the picture of the longest serving pm

The truth hearts dagger now in 5 - 10 years we will be in the 1600 s normal people be pore

Don’t listen to labours lies

Nation insurance is NHS funding

Torries said labour will break it teligraph money

I agree

30k,
Monthly total 2.5k, tax 290
Weekly £ 576.92