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Original poster

Is this odd for an 11 year old?

199 replies

Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 07:59

Hi, I have long been a reader of mumsnet, but have never actually set up an account and posted. I’m hoping for some advice on my DD who will be going into year 7 in September. It’s going to be a long one as I’m very confused.

DD has just been acting… odd.

For background, she is bright and sociable, very much talkative and matter of fact. She has been looking forward to going to secondary school since about year 4! Just thought I’d mention as I’m 99% sure she isn’t worried about this.

Of late she has been far quieter and more subdued. She spends most of her time in her room, and gets incredibly upset and distressed if we, for example, don’t close doors when she is in the room. I want to stress that it doesn’t seem like usual teenage bratty behavior (she’s only 11!) but rather genuine distress.

She is ok if we all spend the day together, but sometimes she will seem to suddenly click and act odd again, as though she is in a daze and about to cry. She doesn’t full on cry though.

Often this is in the evenings (I suppose tiredness) and on weekends. It is not usual for her though and I can’t explain how odd it really is because it’s almost subtle.

I don’t know what I’m asking really, can anyone think what it could be? I’m racking my brains. I never thought I’d have to ever create a mn account as she’s usually a joy to raise, apart from the occasional outburst.

OP posts:
nooobeginnings · 18/07/2024 11:18

Most likely hormones and friendship issues. Friends can do a lot of ostracising around that age and with hormones its easy to blurt things out that come across harsh etc.

The online part is the difficult part as it becomes so psychologically invasive.

Nazzywish · 18/07/2024 11:20

Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 08:21

No periods either yet as I’m the one who always cleans out the bathroom bins (that’s another moan for another thread)

There was a bit of a situation with phones though with her best friend. She is very mature for her age so to be honest I trusted her with it. I blocked most social media apps she just had whattsapp and safari and then a few games. She had started to chat to her best friend more on whattsapp which she was excited about. I think she wants to have more grown up conversations (nothing bad but she likes being older and a bit of a know it all to be honest so she kind of shows off her maturity in the way she speaks to her friends). I don’t know the kind of things they were talking about. Anyway then she got upset because her friend didn’t text her back for about two hours with no warning. When she did text back, her friend apologized and said she has to hand her phone over to her parents for them to check messages. This didn’t really occur to me as DD is sensible and only has friends on there who she can speak to in real life too. I did wonder if maybe DD had written something which she didn’t expect an adult to be reading through? This was a good few months ago though.

OP there seems to be some distance in the relationship- try and close that gap but not in an overbearing way at 11 they still need you as their parent despite wanting to feel all going up.
Periods should be talked about openly and so openly ilthat is she starts she would come and tell you about it - not you having to route through bathroom bins to find out!
Phones - again I get the trsut but your still her psrent and need to have regular check in with her and occasionally check her phone. They're not an adult or older teenager who can filter what's inappropriate all the time that's your job to pick up on- no matter how mature she may seem
Emotions are big at this stage because it really is hormones starting to kick in everything is amplified and more emotional. Yes close the door but sometimes just go over without her asking for one and sit 121 give her a cuddle and chat nd shut the door on your way out lime age wanted. They still need you despite not wanting to seem if they need you so you need to figure out how's best to connect.

ByWarmShark · 18/07/2024 11:28

Could just be hormones, something could've happened. How about a day focused on her where you get some alone time?

My son started acting oddly at 11. Turned out he'd downloaded a game which involved an AI interface where he could tell animated girls what to do and they would do it. It wasn't explicit but it was clearly sexual and misogynistic and he had got himself in a state because he knew it was wrong but wanted to keep doing it. It was classified PEGI12!! (Parental controls mean this is the max age he's allowed.) He'd deleted all traces of the game by the time he confessed so I'd never have known if he hadn't told me (I only check his WhatsApp as I assumed pegi12 games would be fine - just maybe a bit of cartoon violence).

We've been lucky. My son's friend was added to a huge whatsapp group with kids from his school and they were sharing really nasty, demeaning porn. He left and deleted the group (so again his parents didn't know straight away) but it's had a lot of awful consequences.

Check phones regularly.

oatmilk4breakfast · 18/07/2024 11:31

All the safeguarding training I've ever done says to look out for this sort of behaviour change as a sign of something traumatic - bullying, abuse etc. Sorry, I hope you find out what's going on.

Fontainebleau007 · 18/07/2024 11:34

My son acted similar to this last year. I sat down with him and it turned out he was being bullied at school.
Hope you find out what's happening op.

oatmilk4breakfast · 18/07/2024 11:35

I just read your update about the sound that sounds like her kicking the bed. She may be. Or she be hitting an arm or leg against it to create a bruise. It's quite young for it but self-harm is a thing sadly and this can be one of the ways into it. It's an outlet for emotional distress. Just something to consider as well - though not nice!

Lupina12 · 18/07/2024 11:52

Hello, I don't have time to read the whole thread, has anyone suggested PANS/PANDAS?

It's a neurological reaction to a common infection that causes behavioural changes. I heard a program about it recently

There's loads of info online but here's a link to start:

https://panspandasuk.org/what-are-pans-and-pandas/

From that site:

People with PANS and PANDAS may experience a variety of different physical and mental health symptoms.
Such as:
Anxiety (heightened anxiety, separation anxiety, irrational fears, panic episodes)
Tics
Emotional lability and/or depression
Irritability, aggression, and/or severely oppositional behaviours
Behavioural (developmental) regression (increase in temper tantrums, loss of age-appropriate language, clingy behaviour not related to anxiety)
Sudden deterioration in school performance (due to difficulties with memory, concentration, hyperactivity, impulsivity, new deficits of visuospatial skills)
Motor or sensory abnormalities (dysgraphia, clumsiness, tics, new sensory sensitivities to light, noise, smell, taste or texture)
Insomnia and/or sleep disturbances
Enuresis and/or urinary frequency

What are PANS and PANDAS? - PANS PANDAS UK

Welcome to PANS PANDAS UK. This is our What are PANS and PANDAS? page.

https://panspandasuk.org/what-are-pans-and-pandas

Toptotoe · 18/07/2024 11:58

You need to check her phone and search history on her computer - there's a lot of horrible stuff online she could be looking at (even with net nanny etc).Also do not allow her to shut her bedroom door.

TheMamaYo · 18/07/2024 12:09

Hateliars34 · 18/07/2024 11:11

From your latest message maybe she's discovered masturbation? I was similar at that age and the reason I stared closing doors was definitely masturbation. And this was before I got my period too.

The moods are probably just pre-teen angst. She sounds like a lovely kid. I would respect her boundaries, and just make sure she knows you are always there for her.

Continue doing activities together that you both enjoy, but do not push for information if you want her to trust you. She'll open up when she's ready, if there's anything for her to open up about and you maintain your close relationship.

This seems a distinct possibility. Bedroom and bathroom, strange sounds, closed door…

Perhaps no need for worry, just a talk about self love, the birds and the bees!

Summerhols26 · 18/07/2024 12:12

I’ve a daughter the same age. I’m sorry but first thoughts would be something online. Bullying , nude pics etc. that or difficulties with a friend. My daughter had the same friend from they were in crèche. Their friendship ended last year. It was very hard on my daughter

Summerhols26 · 18/07/2024 12:14

As for the thinking yourself and DH are tech savvy and had everything tightly controlled as a teacher I can say kids are nearly always ten steps ahead on this.

Original poster
Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 12:58

Thanks I’ve read all the replies.
I think I need to better explain our home situation as I think some things suggested, while plausible, don’t really relate to DD.
We are semi-rural I would say, and have lots of open space and farms etc. around us, many with children. I have a DS who is in year 8, and DD11. Most days they go to school, coke back and do homework, then play out with the local kids. There isn’t a need for phones when they play out as some are younger they just climb trees, go to others houses and help out sometimes etc. Then they come back, have tea, go out again. Then go to bed. They may have swimming or a club or go to visit cousins sometimes. At weekends they play out, without phones again. I try to let them be free range. We know the families well and we do discuss the kids and their well-being in detail, so we do know what’s going on with who etc. We eat dinner together and are close knit. I go out for hot chocolate with DD at our garden centre sometimes too.

thought I’d just mention our set up, sorry for drip feeding there’s just so much which could or could not be relevant.

i can’t thank you enough for the help you are all amazing

OP posts:
Original poster
Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:03

DD is wearing a summer dress today so I’ll look for bruises but she is an outdoor kid so it won’t prove much.

Another thing is she won’t sit on the front seat of anyone’s car all of a sudden. She has to be sat in the back. She used to argue with her brother for the front seat when DH or I drive them to places but now she won’t go near the front seat and will always sit in the back or even the boot despite getting car sick in the boot.

She still goes out to play with friends but sometimes she would rather shut herself away, even when DH and another of the husbands were building a zipline onto trees for them all. She would usually be the first there.

OP posts:
RantyMcRanterton · 18/07/2024 13:05

Summerhols26 · 18/07/2024 12:14

As for the thinking yourself and DH are tech savvy and had everything tightly controlled as a teacher I can say kids are nearly always ten steps ahead on this.

I agree.

Once way round is to have phones/laptops downstairs where Mum or Dad can swish by and eyeball the device in real time.

Original poster
Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:06

Also there are no phones in bedrooms so when she is shut up she has nothing really to occupy her.
Im in her room now but there isn’t anything worrying in here. She does have a locked diary but the key isn’t here and I’d never usually look but I might. Is that a good idea?

OP posts:
Original poster
Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:09

Our laptop is a family one downstairs in the dining room where one of us usually is.
Also yes she needs the doors to be closed in any room otherwise she gets really upset and can’t focus on what’s actually happening we have had this at dinner once and she didn’t eat until we shut all the doors properly.

I am very open about periods etc. and always left the door open to the bathroom when she was younger so she knew what they were and isn’t phased. We do talk about periods as some friends have started.

OP posts:
Summerhols26 · 18/07/2024 13:11

Sounds lovely and similar to our lives. However it’s surprising what can go on in kids lives that we don’t know always know about. It’s like there is all these different levels and worlds. At school we have software that allows us to monitor what students are doing on screen. I very rarely have used it to check up on kids. When I have it has shocked me. It’s like the kids have a different world going on. Quiet, well mannered respectable kids posting stuff you never would have dreamed of. Loads of different group chats. Kids exchanging messages and weird stuff with other kids in the class/ school that they never acknowledged in real life or I would have thought barely even knew each others names. It made me realise that there so much going on in the classroom that I was totally unaware of.

Original poster
Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:14

She brushes it off when I try to ask her what’s wrong, just says there’s no point telling me. We are close usually and she will usually say if something is bothering her, but to be honest nothing too major has ever come up

OP posts:
Adviceneeeeded · 18/07/2024 13:14

Hormones! My 11 year old boy is the same
But yes, keep an eye on the phone. And maybe explain, the great thing about messages is that you don't have to reply straight away. Might help any friend anxiety!

Summerhols26 · 18/07/2024 13:24

Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:14

She brushes it off when I try to ask her what’s wrong, just says there’s no point telling me. We are close usually and she will usually say if something is bothering her, but to be honest nothing too major has ever come up

Thats worrying that when you ask what’s wrong she says there is no point telling you - so something is upsetting her. Poor kid. I hope she’s ok and you manage to get to the bottom of it. Xx

CountessWindyBottom · 18/07/2024 13:24

Phonesthesedays · 18/07/2024 13:03

DD is wearing a summer dress today so I’ll look for bruises but she is an outdoor kid so it won’t prove much.

Another thing is she won’t sit on the front seat of anyone’s car all of a sudden. She has to be sat in the back. She used to argue with her brother for the front seat when DH or I drive them to places but now she won’t go near the front seat and will always sit in the back or even the boot despite getting car sick in the boot.

She still goes out to play with friends but sometimes she would rather shut herself away, even when DH and another of the husbands were building a zipline onto trees for them all. She would usually be the first there.

This is a worrying development. Does she get lifts with non family members at all? A friend's parent/brother, sports coach or anything? Do you think she could have been touched inappropriately? She is demonstrating security-seeking/protective behaviours for some reason which is indicative of a fear of coming to some harm.

If it's not that I really would urge you not to be so casual re your daughter's phone use. They are not emotionally equipped to dealing with a smartphone at that age. A lot of children begin to send/receive nudes at that age. Could she have been coerced into sending something and is now fearful?

I don't think her behaviour is typical of puberty necessarily and she has indicated to you that 'there is no point' in telling you what's wrong as something evidently IS wrong and she is struggling to cope.

I think I would have an 'I love you and you can trust me/tell me anything/I won't get mad' chat and let that sink in for a couple of days without asking her what's wrong. She may open up to you and she may not. If not then I'd suggest art or play therapy in the hope that she will open up to a third party.

Winter2020 · 18/07/2024 13:28

Hi OP,
As well as the things already considered/discussed could anorexic or bullemic behaviours be possible? Could she have a vape in her room and wants to hide away with it.

Could the not wanting to sit in the front of the car be a sign that someone has touched her inappropriately? I know that is a frightening thought. I think you need to spend some time alone with her and push her to tell you what is wrong. If she says there is no point telling you then you need to convince her that there is.

JMSA · 18/07/2024 13:30

Just to say, I have teenage daughters and they're a bloody nightmare about doors. They hate them being open and will shut them all (when they're inside the room).

rainbow126 · 18/07/2024 13:31

You need to check her phone - I’d be worried in case she has been talking to a man online and has been coerced into sending explicit images. This sounds similar to a friend’s daughter who had a sudden change in behaviour. It only came out when the daughter attempted suicide.

Doggymummar · 18/07/2024 13:31

I was sexually abused by a friend's dad at around this age and began to behave like your daughter. I have never told my parents as we lived rurally and my dad had guns and I know my dad would have killed him. I carried on visiting their house to see my friend and the abuse continued, getting worse and worse. My self harm was removing my toe nails. I became hyper sexualised and have had a pretty difficult life.

You don't need to ask her if it's happening to her, but please make sure she knows right from wrong touching and that she can tell you. Don't use language like ket me know if anyone hurts you and I will kill them or sort them out at this made me too scared to speak out about it.

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