To feel broken by 12 year old DD and to ask for help

I agree with the cycle tracking recommendations. There are some great apps and interesting accounts to follow on social media about impact of nutrition and what women can expect with the different phases of their hormones. If I were young again, that’s definitely one thing I would prioritise, instead of the confusion about ‘why am I a crying, emotional mess? Oh, here’s my period’ every month!!
And just because she’s pushing back, don’t think she’s not listening to what you’re saying. I’ve had a terrible run with my DS due to ASD, but now at 10, he’s coming out with such logical and fair observations. They are listening. You need to keep adding your voice to whatever else is going on in her head.

You must get her help asap. What you're describing is often the result of trauma. Something may have happened to her that you don't know about.
It's also possible she could have a mental illness. Take her to the doctor and ask for a psychiatric assessment.

And is there someone in the family that she can go and stay with for a couple of nights? An Aunty or a DGP? My DD has had a change in rountine recently and I realised she's struggling so she's staying with her DA first s couple of days to destress. I do miss her but it gives us the chance to destress a little too.

She hasn’t had a personality transplant but I wonder if something might have happened to her that you’re not aware about. Self harm is extreme and I wouldn’t put it down to just adolescence. I’ve three girls and it can get a bit wild but self harm - no.

Keeping her in is a good idea. I’d go as far as taking her phone off her so she is being bashed with social media algorithms or outside influences. It will also give her brain a rest. Social media causes masses amounts of anxiety and depression in young kids - especially girls

Id take her to the GP to see if her hormones are at a level they should be at.

Councilling is a good idea

I’d really restrict her movements not as a punishment but to pull her back under your wing and keep an eye on her as she is clearly struggling with something. Her talking to you about vaping is pushing for a reaction - why does she want a reaction from you?

It could be that she is struggling with her body chsnges , trauma , bullying, sexual assault, online abuse, severe hormone imbalance.

Keep her in, off her phone and reconnect with her and talk talk talk to her

What are her interests op, so eg if she likes gaming or anything, could you just sit with her, do ye ever get to chat or is she closed to it? Are there eg cousins she gets on with or places she likes going that you could all go to together? Hope it all gets easier x

Hi OP - I used to work in safeguarding in a secondary school - it's incredibly common for girls to start having issues with anger (because that directed at themselves through self harm, or outwards to others) at this age, along with the inset if puberty.

I think you are doing the right things in investigating counselling. Reassure her that you love her and that she is a worthwhile amazing person. So many pressures on young women around image and self esteem these days - anything you can do to build her intrinsic self worth is good.

It very likely will get better. I wish you all strength in the mean time.

I had a book recommended to me when I was struggling with my DD at a similar age, it's Untangled by Lisa Damour and it's really quite good.

The other thing I'd recommend is smiling every time you see her. Smile like you are genuinely really pleased that she's there.

My DD is very sensitive to the moods of those around her and I realised that the tension I felt from her behaviour must be showing in my face. So, I made the conscious effort to smile instead and I think it's had a major impact on our relationship.

After a while she started relaxing more with me and wanting to spend some time with me, even if that's just watching reality TV.

Have you read Helping Teens Who Cut? too?

Is her phone set up as a child's account and can you turn off apps remotely? I would charge it in your room overnight as they can be bloody sneaky and go downstairs once you're asleep. My DD worked out pretty quickly how long I read got and how long it would be before I was asleep.

Wow you have a lot going as do your DH and both children.

Starting year 7 and your periods at the same time is not much fun.

Does she have friends? Does she have friends from primary school?

It sounds to me that she is all over the place, emotionally and probably quite confused about what her body is doing.

And nature cruelly often times daughter's periods starting with their mother's menopause.

You mentioned your PMDD, has your behaviour changed at all? I'm thinking that when we are tired we often get bit more cranky or are short tempered. Not that I blame you, it sounds awful.

Do you have an older female relative or friend she would be happy to talk about puberty with?

Can you sit her down and agree some ground rules. I know it wounds counter intuitive to have her input into rules but it can help.

I've sometimes used a 'class contract' with older teens (supply teacher) where they tell me the rules, and if I disagree then we discuss what is fair.

So no phone until after she has done homework and showed the work to you.

Agree with poster who said that this sudden change is called adolescence. You get a book about parenting teens. Pick your battles and stick to the consequences. If you are lucky it will pass.

I second horse riding, being around horses calms people down, I recommend the book The Spell of the Horse for some insight into what horses can do in this respect. Good luck. Sounds tough xx

Also agree re a hobby, that would help. It sounds like she’s wanting to go out and hang around, which in cities isn’t a good thing. I wouldn’t be letting her go out at 12 unless to specified activities / friends houses.

If she is self harming I would seriously consider whether something has happened that you don't know about.

Self harming is indicative that there is a situation she is struggling to cope with. She may be being bullied at school possibly. She might have been assaulted, physically or sexually.

If she is saying she doesn't want to talk to you about it it's possible that she broke one of your rules (eg. Curfew) and was assaulted but doesn't want to tell you because she thinks you will care more about the breaking of the rule. This kind of response is very common in teens that have been assaulted.

In your position I'd stop with the punishments and consequences - her behaviour is classic "acting out" for where an incident has happened. Focus on trying to build your relationship so she can tell you what is really going on.

If you feel you have to keep going with punishments then it may be an idea to frame them as keeping her safe.

She wouldn’t have a phone at all if she behaved like that. Whether it makes her change or not, it’s a luxury and if you’re not doing your homework then you’re not having your phone. I’d be setting very firm boundaries around the way she speaks to you, absolutely not acceptable. Have school suggested anything to help, counsellor etc? Is it friends she’s hanging around with her influencing her behaviour? Have a no phone rule for her on holiday and see if her behaviour improves being away from outside influences

‘Even’ private school kids 🤔

I agree with @Calamitousness - I would be looking more at the transition to secondary school than the periods / puberty / hormones issue. Is she struggling with friendships? Or has she got in with a bad crowd? Would you / she consider moving to a different school?

I am so sorry you are going through this, I have experienced similar. Is she being bullied?

If you have money now is the time to get her into a time consuming (energy sucking) hobby.
Horse riding is particularly good, most girls jump at the chance to do it and it is physically exhausting for new riders!
If not that, dance, volunteering at an animal shelter etc.
If she doesn't care about punishments such as being grounded I would remove her phone completely every weekend until she gets the message you mean business (that's why they care so little about being grounded, they are still in constant communication with friends, phone would be for school only until behaviour improves).
It might be worth a trip to the GP just for peace of mind that nothing else is going on but I suspect the need to 'fit in' with new friends has more to do with it.

While I agree puberty is likely a factor here. I wouldn’t put all blame on that. The most concerning thing about the move to high school and the most influencing thing on your child from here on is her peers. What’s the school like? What are her friends like? Is she making friends with older kids/slightly wilder kids?
Her behaviour will be hugely influenced by them now. If hee peer group is poor choices on her part then that’s where I would focus my efforts. Also try and find some common space with her if you can. Whether she likes a programme you can watch with her or you have a regular night out together to somewhere she enjoys, can even be a trip to McDonald’s type thing. Just some connection that keep her communicating with you

@Edenspirits73
Please ignore my post about labels, an error
But what a nightmare for you. I was put on the mini-pill to deal with my PMS (not MN abbreviation!) when I first started as they were all over the place, as were my moods.
, it worked a treat

It's probably related to puberty and will settle but, just in case, ask her if someone has been hurting her. It could be a reaction to bullying or even abuse. It's not easy to talk about it and children/ teenagers will need someone they love and trust to help them speak.

This sounds really difficult and confusing. You sound like such a sensitive and compassionate parent, and your daughter is lucky to have you. I think that feeling of being bullied by your child is very common in parents of teenagers, and isn't silly at all - they are old enough to know how to be hurtful but not old enough to always moderate their behaviour, and we can't walk away as we would if an adult treated us badly!

I'm a secondary school teacher and I know some parents blame themselves for their child's behaviour and feel that the school is judging them. Just to reassure you, most of the time I think the parents are doing a great job - you have a teenager who is making her own choices and has her own preferences and her behaviour doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong.

I agree with previous posters that it is worth investigating the trigger for this behaviour change. From a secondary school teacher's perspective, I would consider whether she is struggling academically - poor behaviour can be a way of masking this. It is also worth considering neurodiversity as this can emerge in the larger, less predictable secondary school environment. Getting her a counsellor sounds really sensible, although, as I'm sure you are aware, the CAMHS waiting list is pretty farcical - go private if you can. Finally, what are her friends like at secondary school? The drive to fit in is very strong at that age, and she may have fallen in with a group who are all pushing boundaries. The school might be able to help her form different friends by moving form groups etc. Cynically, though, I think this is quite difficult and if my own child fell in with the "wrong crowd" I would consider moving schools before the behaviour is calcified in them.

Best of luck!

This sudden change that everyone is mystified about is puberty and secondary school. Not all our teens are saints...most aren't! Even private school kids.

Yes, I agree
Just edited the above post as I had not meant to post here; multiple tabs open, early morning

My dd was like this and is now a studious 16 year old.
Vaping is a massive trend....most school kids try it....try not to panic.....at least your dd is honest. Mine did it behind my back!

My mum was hysterical about drugs etc which made me want to try it more. My stance has been to educate ( lecturre) dd on lung cancer, liver disease and teen pregnancy etc but not come down too hard. The result is she hardly drinks, smokes and has tried weed but dosn't like it although she will vape at festivals and parties.i dont love it but I was the same.At 16 she is still a virgin....thank god! At one point I thought she would loose it to her bf at 14 but they broke up.

Here's the thing...i used to experiment behind mum's back too but dd is honest with me.
Keep up with the dicipline. I'll never forgot when dd broke a curfew aged 12 so I went to pick her up in front of all her friends. She died of embarassment and never did it again! When she got home the internet was off as a punishment. There waa a tantrum but we stuck with it.
Ffiw they all say that so and so's parents let them do xyand z...it's bollocks.

Nobody is keen to have a label, but a sudden change in behaviour is unusual and should be investigated by parents/school/GP.

Or, OP could ignore what is going on with worsening consequence for her DD. She is - rightly - seeking help and looking for suggestions.