To feel broken by 12 year old DD and to ask for help

I agree with a PP also that the periods thing is a red herring. Hormones don’t cause the sort of behaviour you’re describing, you need to look at the wider picture of what’s going for her. It is likely to be nothing to do with her periods, she started them at the start of year 7…so she also had a massive change of environment at that time. Secondary school is VERY different to primary school. I would put money on the problem being school, not her hormones. I would also read up on ADHD and ASD in girls to see if any of that sounds familiar.

Honestly I could have written your post last year, pretty much word for word.

My DD is nearly 14 now and this probably isn’t helpful but the ONLY thing that has changed her behaviour is taking her out of school. She started one secondary, behaviour was terrible by the end of year 7, continued into year 8 where it got worse, then I took her out. Behaviour improved very quickly once out of school. Took ages to find another school that would take her but she started there for year 9 after a long gap, and the old problems were back but worse than ever before, her behaviour at school was awful and at home she was unbearable and made me really ill through stress. She stopped going there at Christmas and within weeks my daughter was back, and yes she has her teenage moments but generally she’s lovely.

I think secondary schools now are terrifying places to be, the behaviour across the board is awful, the teachers have no control, there’s violence, bullying in person and on social media (I think social media in general is a huge cause of the problem, there’s so much pressure in so many ways). I think my daughter set out to be a hard nut so she wasn’t a target, kind of like small dog syndrome.

I even phoned SS twice and begged them to take her, I honestly couldn’t cope with the way she was while she was at school. Turns out it’s not that easy, we had one visit from SS and that was it. I tried everywhere to get support, but there’s nothing, everything has been cut to the bone. So in the end I was like ok, the only realistic option is to remove her from school, it was the only way I was going to be able to cope with her. And I don’t regret it at all…she’s great to be around now and so much happier in herself. The behaviour she was showing at school wasn’t her - it was a coping mechanism for being trapped in a really stressful situation that she couldn’t handle.

The downside is that she’s not getting an education, but the way she was going she was going end up in some serious trouble, and she wasn’t learning anything at school, just being disruptive. I think having nice experiences with her and teaching her how to be a nice, reasonable human being is a better use of her time, she’s bright and she can learn again when she’s ready. But school was damaging her and I know that would have ended up causing her problems for the rest of her life.

She is diagnosed with SEN and I’m trying to get an EHCP, but again the council has gone bankrupt so how far I get with that remains to be seen!

@Edenspirits73 no time to write a proper response at the moment as I'm off to work, but just wanted to let you know you aren't along, and you aren't a failure.
I suspect this is the beginning of 'those teenage years'. Confusion, anger, frustration and boundary pushing.
It's a nightmare. I've been on the floor sobbing wondering where I went wrong, not wanting to get out of bed and face another day of being spoken to like shit and endless battles.

Just know you are not alone x

I'd try again with taking the phone away and putting in alot of controls when she does use it.
Did you allow free reign access to tech before?
That would well be the problem.

Get rid of her phone. Completely. No phone, no iPad, no social media.

Your house, your rules.

Op I'm sure her changes have contributed but it sounds like she's got someone troublesome influences at school?

I went through a horrible period at the age of 12 too! I was so so unpleasant, almost overnight. Looking back it was a mix of:

1. Hormones (periods started at 10 but they got worse at 12)
2. Body issues (acne and got a bit fat, well not quite fat but got big boobs and big hips, clothes didn't fit right)
3. Friendship issues - some other girls turned horrible, some bullying going on too
4. Boy issues - some girls were getting boyfriends, I was very confused and curious about sex, it was just a lot going on.

What helped:

1. One on one time with my mum. Taking me shopping and lunches out in town. I'd start off moody and relax as the day went. I'm sure it was hard for my mum but I remember these days fondly, to this day.
2. My mum took me to a beauty parlour/spa to help with my acne, had some teenage appropriate facials and she also helped me with makeup and always took me a good place for haircuts so I'd have nice hair. It really helped.
3. Lots of boundaries. I am forever grateful I was grounded and couldn't go to certain parties now.
4. Lots of extracurricular to keep me busy.
5. Changing schools at 14, I got out of the horrible friendship group.

It took a while but I was a good kid again by the age of 16.

The GP recommended birth control pills when I was 14 to help with my periods. My mum didn't approve, I wish she had. My periods are awful to this day (I get very serious depression before a period, I'm a different human) and hormonal contraception has been life changing.

It sounds like she is getting really damaging messages from her peers, reinforced by social media. Counselling for both of you is a good idea, but also any opportunity to connect away from screens. Keep seeking opportunities to connect with her. She's having a hard time and needs your support. I was vile to my parents as a teenager and they never took it personally, and that meant I knew I could always rely on them.

Is it the new girls she is mixing with? If they are very 'grown up' in their opinions and go on about what they are allowed to do, on social media all the time, vaping, going out, smoking weed, boyfriends, they may be making her feel childish and behind the game. Then she is pushing to be like them and you are the enemy. Do you know any of the girls and mums? So you could sus out what is going on within the peer group. I remember at that age some girls were already acting like 'real' teenagers and there was huge pressure to grow up (in their words) and be like them and that was before most of the modern pressures.

My previously very sweet child fell apart in year 7 - I think sometimes the hormones are a red herring. For children high school is a big step up from primary and, in particular, children who have executive function problems tend to feel very overwhelmed. Is she messy, doing things last minute or not at all? Please google inattentive ADHD and see if this applies.

My daughter realised herself (at age 14) she had inattentive ADHD after reading an article. It was missed by all the schools because she was masking. People tend to think of inattentive ADHD as the child is not paying attention - its more they are thinking of too many things at once and struggling to get themselves organised.

Hi OP,

I was this 12 year old. My personality basically changed overnight and I went from perfect, academic good girl to pushing the boundaries at school, getting suspended, self harming etc. At the time I honestly couldn't have told you why or what had happened.

Looking back, I think it was mostly hormones. I have always struggled with the most horrendous PMT and just have a complete personality change before I come on my period and become and unrecognisable demon. As an adult, I've found a pill that works for me (Gedarel) and massively reduces the symptoms of this. It wasn't until I came off the pill to start trying for a baby and spent a whole day sat on the floor crying (and DH was terrified!) that I remembered how bad it used to be. Probably also some undiagnosed ND I think, although now I'm a functional adult I don't think I'll bother getting a diagnosis.

As far as supporting your DD goes, quality time is so important. If you can make some quality time for her each week, a Saturday coffee trip, gym trip together etc even if you get nothing back from her and it feels like she hates you, it will really be making a difference. If there are any other female adults who are good influences on her and whom she respects, aunts etc. or your friends that she knows, try to prioritise them being regular figures in her life. Sometimes teenagers will respect other adults and appreciate their input even when they won't hear it from their parents.

Has she found her "thing" (dance, drama, sport etc)? For me, that was my absolute saving grace as a teenager. I was doing musical theatre three or four times per week and just really found a space where I belonged.

Finally- ignore her comments about her friend who lives with no boundaries. Either it's not true, or that is not a happy functioning household. You say she isn't bothered by the consequences you give her, but the fact that she brings this up indicates she actually is bothered!

Stay in touch with the school and check there are no academic or other issues. Great that she has a counsellor, keep it up.

Should add, Head of Year 9 here who spends a lot of time with troubled teenagers, not just former teenager.

I know what you're going through. My eldest daughter is 22. She's lovely, hard working, has a great career and I love spending time with her. When she was 12 to 16 I could have written your OP! I'm not an expert on self harming so can't advise adequately on that. But everything else is exactly what I went through with her.

I got lots of advice from friends and colleagues and the gist of it was that I had to develop the capacity to not take her behaviour personally or as a sign of my own failure. She's behaving like this for the same reason she had tantrums when she was 2 and refused to eat her peas if they'd touched her mash when she was 4. It's just the current state of her under developed brain and raging hormones.

There are some great books on parenting teenagers with advice on managing the behaviour which I found really helpful. But from your post it sound like one of the key things you need is to navigate this phase while protecting your own mental health. And for me the main thing was recognising that for the time being I couldn't change the situation. I could only change my response to it.

Don't underestimate peer group.
If she has social media apps delete them,
Set up the parent controls on her phone so it automatically powers off at 8:30.
Sit on her bed at bedtime and just chat, chat about anything.
I'd highly recommend the book 'just mom and me' in the America girl series, it has really lovely ideas about how to bond or rebuild the mother daughter relationship. If your daughter is anything like mine she'll eye roll and claim it's lame.....but secretly really enjoy the attention!
She's still very much a child being influenced by peers and social media, and wanting to be 18. My dd has ASD, she genuinely doesn't understand when her manner is rude or language inappropriate, she copies her peers, without having the semantic pragmatic skills for the situation (this may or may not be the case with your dd).
When she says her friends parents don't believe in discipline you come back with 'that's fine, we have different in parenting approaches, bad luck kiddo you have big bad mom /mum / mamma who believes in discipline" make it light hearted but you can follow it up with "yep, you can hate me as much as you like, that's a child's job, but I love you and want the best for you, and one day when you are older you will understand, in the meantime, it's cool to hate me!"
You are allowing her feelings, and more importantly you are giving her a valid reason for her to tell her friends it's all your fault why she can't do X,Y,Z. sometimes kids actually want or need an excuse to get out of doing things with the friends.
Remember she doesn't actually hate you. It would be incredibly rare for a child to hate their parent, however it's very normal for a child to say they hate their parent, or they wish they'd never been born, or any other similar statement. They are learning to navigate a tougher world in secondary school. Just be her constant guidance. Reward good behaviour, discipline poor behaviour. Make sure she has a snack and some quiet time as soon as she gets in from school. Both mine need feeding the minute they walk through the door (they are both older teens) my dd can still be stroppy, but I know if she's stroppy then it means she's had a crappy school day, and I'll plonk myself on her bed at 9.00 and we'll often chat till 10:00. Sometimes we talk about her day, sometimes she doesn't want to talk about what happened, she just wants to know I'm there and we talk about something completely ridiculous like how do we actually know the moon isn't made of cheese!! I'll often start the conversation, but then let her lead, in these conversations I never, ever judge or tick her off, eg she got a detention the other day, instead of telling her off I asked how she felt about it, and we talked about why detentions aren't necessarily a bad thing, and how to avoid them in the future. These are her 'safe' chats where I'm more 'therapist' than parent. I have similar with DS. again he finds it really hard to 'spill the beans' with him its long walks, sometimes we're almost completely silent on our two hour rambles, with DS I never open the conversation but let him lead. He normally starts off telling me survival skill stuff that he's read, which then leads on to surviving the school jungle!
I always thought once mine were at secondary they wouldn't need me as much, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion they need me more.
Find the path that works for you and dd, it might be trial and error for a while, but keep going.

Not an answer to your main problem, but seriously, about a week before her period start loading her (safely) with B vitamins - see if it makes a difference.
Marmite. Rescue remedy lozenges - they are boiled sweets, not the whole pack. Obviously keep within reccomendations.

First of all I wanted to say this isn’t your fault. Some teens go through a particularly tough time and it isn’t something you have caused or created. It is something happening to both of you. Sadly hormones can really damage the mental health of teens and it may be that there are some underlying causes like PMDD, ADHD (which is notoriously hormonally inpacted), a trauma you don’t know about. Be curious but be steady.

Secondly, I would use the language of healthy rhythms and it’s good and right as her parents you keep her safe. Constantly talk about what is right, healthy and safe for her. This isn’t about you wrestling control. This is you doing your job as her parents.
Thirdly, she is probably really scared. Counselling sounds like an important idea. But also keep telling her that she is safe, you will keep her safe and that her well-being is of primary importance.

Fourthly, education is important for the long term. But keep your expectations here basic. She must go and turn up. She will suffer various consequences for not doing things but they aren’t your concern. Ultimately she can do badly at school for a year or four even and still get an education when she is out the other side intact.

Finally, get counselling for yourself. This might be the most important one. The more well supported you are the better you will handle this.

This is tough.
She's obviously going through body issues. I'm wondering what she was looking at on the phone before you took it away. There's an unbelievable amount of harmful stuff that young people get drawn into.
Keep a dialogue open with the school, is there a pastoral team member who can monitor her more closely?
Also take her to the GP in case there is a medical problem with the periods/mood impact.

I know 😂!

it sounds really miserable OP, wishing you strength, i echo those who have mentioned investigating neurodiversity as a possible underlying trigger, this could be worth investigating. my 12yo DD has just been diagnosed as autistic - we started the process following an absolutely miserable transition into Yr7. girls can mask brilliantly during the school day but typically family pays the price (after school restraint collapse / coke bottle effect).

I'm no expert, but the consensus is that puberty is usually triggered at a certain weight. Seems to make sense among my own children's friends' experiences. It still doesn't mean that most of Year 7 will have started their periods, but many will have. It's my personal experience that girls can have a pretty torrid time (and be quite difficult) starting in Year 7, but often they have calmed down by year 10. They still have the friendship/boy issues etc but they seem to handle it all a bit better and are certainly more pleasant around adults. Obviously this is all just anecdotal, but I would choose to teach year 10 (girls) over Year 7 every time!

We went through this with our daughter so I know how you're feeling, it's just dreadful. Firstly don't blame yourselves, it's not your fault your daughter has changed. It could be she's now mixing with different friends and reacting to that. My daughter has just been diagnosed with ADHD, she's mid 20s, is this something you could look into. Apparently girls mask it really well but looking back and now knowing more about it, my daughter definitely ticked most of the boxes when we read up about it. On the bright side we have a lovely relationship now and a beautiful granddaughter but those teen years were awful.

@Biscuitsneeded that's really interesting about puberty. Do you have any thoughts on why girls are hitting puberty earlier? A GP friend said that it's due to girls weighing more than they used to, which allegedly sets off the whole process sooner. Many of dd's peers started their periods at 9/10. Or is there an issue with hormone imbalances due to processed foods, or lack of exercise? Or are there other reasons entirely? I'm also interested how it changes the experience of early secondary school if most girls have almost gone through their puberty but the end of year 7.

Secondary teacher here. Girls are hitting puberty younger and younger, which is tough on everyone (including them) but in a lot of cases they are maturing out of it faster too - it's just particularly torrid and difficult to navigate when they are so young really, despite thinking they are ready to be adults.
It also sounds as if she has found the transition to secondary very difficult - you need to ascertain whether it's a case of wrong friends, bullying, even wrong school, or whether something specific has happened that she hasn't told you about. Try to create a need for a long car journey, just you and her. If she's beside you but not having to look AT you, you might get her to talk a bit more. If it's more than just hormones, try hard to get school on side. If they are not responsive, look carefully at whether a different/smaller school might be better, but only if she wants to go. Don't force a move on her that might be perceived as a punishment. But if she wants a chance at a fresh start/nicer friends etc, it might be what she needs.

Give her a brick phone and control her internet use at home.

It sounds as though there might be a group she has fallen in with at school?
Moved my dd from a school where there were multiple kids self harming in Y7 and it was the best thing we could have done. She actually thanked me for that over the weekend and said she hadn't realised at the time how traumatic it was. New group of friends (she was terrified she wouldn't make any new ones) and she's back to her old non-anxious self. We did a couple of sessions with a therapist before she started to help her which was enough and now she knows she can ask for more if something happens.

She sounds exactly like how my daughter was, we had 4 years of hell, tried everything, in the end school was pushing for ADHD diagnosis. I knew in my gut this wasn't the answer. She switched friendship groups and almost overnight everything calmed down, she got a job, stopped going out every night and reverted back to being a pleasant calm individual. Maybe look at who she is hanging around with? Good luck, it's a stressful time.