To feel broken by 12 year old DD and to ask for help

I absolutely feel your pain. I also have a 12 year old son who is struggling with the transition to secondary school. If it helps most of my friends with children of the same age are struggling with there kids too for a variety of reasons.
Secondary is a whole new world it seems. What is her friendship group like? Is she being bullied? Not that it excuses the behaviour, but my Son had been so so moody and lashing out verbally, turned out he is being bullied and was struggling. I would take away her phone everytime she I rude to you, take away her TV if she has one and turn of Internet if need be. I think the trick is to get to the root of the problem, easier said than done I know..

Do you have a Mental Health team at school?
My DD suffers with anxiety and has talked of self harm, which triggered extra help and counselling through school, it has really helped her and was pretty much immediate compared to the waiting list for Camhs of around 2 years.
It does sound like she has something that's troubling her, we found big changes in DD as she navigated periods, complicated friendship issues and a new school.
Keep all lines of communication as open as you can. Dd often talks to me in the car as its less confrontational. Or often in the dark at bedtime. Reassure her that she can tell you anything.
While I steered away from a phone limit as I personally didn't believe it would have helped us, I did plan regular small treats (cafe/shopping/cinema) so she was less reliant on her phone. I tried to make sure she had several clubs or activities outside of her school friendship groups. Sometimes it's difficult when all their friends are in one place.

DD is 13 and things are so much more settled than they were a couple of years ago.

Sounds like you need your own version of super nanny to come and give you advice. I have no idea if there are advisors like that out there but maybe research that route?

@Edenspirits73 My daughter started like this and is still a nightmare at 25
Sorry that was not helpful. You just have to deal with stuff as it happens, hopefully you have a hubs who can get on board for support

First port of call would be a discussion with your GP- both for you and your child.

dont hold out out for much support from CAMHS - BUT if she is at risk of self harm and both GP and school confirm this she will get accelerated support.

the school should also have a child psychologist which should be the fastest and most immediate route. If you can afford then do consider private counselling based off recommendations.

one thing to consider- wild shot- my dtr really struggled with the transition to ss but she expressed thru anxiety and depression. Eventually at age 15 and 4 years of pain she was diagnosed with autism - she could cope / mask at primary but not at ss. We did experience meltdowns when she came home.

Currently she attends school p/t and she has weekly contact with a staff member- but she has also been fully out of school when needed. Maybe discuss with school and your daughter what she can cope with? Unfortunately the uk education system is a straight jacket which doesn’t meet the needs of all children.

Sorry to hear that, sounds like a very difficult situation. One word of caution though, please ensure any counsellor or therapist you refer your daughter to does not, under any circumstances, discuss gender identity with her. Your daughter is vulnerable to those who would have her believe the lie that she's perhaps born in the wrong body, and the tragedy of the Tavistock clinic is littered with troubled young girls like her. It's probably not much comfort but her issues will likely resolve in time - but it won't be easy. Best of luck.

You need third party involvement in this. A psychologist specialising in adolescent mental health and family therapy is the route you need to go down.

Came on to suggest PMDD and see that it has already been posted. I had PMDD from my teens, so 50 years ago when I’m sure it had never even been thought of! I was an awful teenager and absolutely would not accept the same behaviour from my DD. Track her cycles and note there are cycles within cycles, every third month mine were particularly bad. Read and understand all that PMDD involves: lack of confidence, anger, rage, confusion, dark thoughts, brain fog to mention just few. Keep your boundaries strong, look at her Screen Time, this is how I manage my DCs phone usage. Good luck.

I agree with @Zanatdy …goodbye phone. It won’t be easy but it needs to go.

Self harm is very common amongs ND.

As is ND girls struggling in Y7. ( bitter experience)

Id be looking at ADHD and possible PDA.

It might be worth a read of Dr Becky Kennedy book Good Inside.

But I agree with others, I would take her to the GP for a check up to make sure it’s not anything hormonal if you have recently had a diagnosis yourself in the first instance.

I’m sorry but I don’t understand what the issue is? It’s normal for a teenager to want to be on her own in her room on her phone all the time, she’s going through a rebellion period, and establishing her own boundaries. Bunking off and getting into a bit of trouble at school are normal. The talk about self harm at school could be just “boasting” silly nonsense said to “impress” her peers. She’s changing, she’s trying out new personalities, of course if feels like you don’t know her anymore. This shouldn’t be causing you so much stress. Your overreaction will cause her to overreact, and push back even harder. Giving her some space and respecting her new boundaries would be more constructive. Another good place to start would be reading up on some literature, Untangled, Teenage Brain, How to be the Parent your Teenager needs you to be are all very good books.

It could be hormones? I’m in perimenopause and I haven’t recognised myself or my behaviour for the last few years. It’s driven me to distraction until I found a lovely nurse who believed what I was telling her and got a diagnosis and treatment. Hormones play havoc and when you start your periods it can be so overwhelming with dealing with the newness of it and all the emotions that comes with. Would a doctor be able to help? Just to try and tackle that side of it, especially if she has suddenly turned?
As for the phone issue, install an app called Google Family Link. I use it with my 13 year old as he is addicted to screens. You can shut their phones down via your phone, block access to apps and set time limits and set daily usage time so you can set when the phone is live during the day and lock it overnight.

So sorry to hear you're going through this OP. Having twin teenage daughters, I can empathize. They were great kids before puberty and almost overnight, became mean and surly. I frequently hear about how their friends' parents are much more lax with screen time (phone, TV, computer) than I am. However, knowing the dangers of unsupervised social media on the teenage brain, I am very strict about limits. Their phones shut off at 9pm and they have a limit of 1.5 hours/day of phone time on weekdays and 1 hr on weekends. Trust me, teens might moan about the limits you put on them but inside, it reassures them as it shows them you care.
The self-harming talk is concerning and obviously is a cry for help. Do you think she feels close enough to you or your DH to talk about things?
I find that with my girls, direct questions never get me answers. But going in to spend some time with them in their rooms at the end of the day, suddenly, I start hearing all sorts of things.
Good luck and hang in there...you're a fab mom!

I would have her checked with doctor for hormonal imbalance/pmdd. I'm 51, was a perfect child, super intelligent, happy as hell. 12 years of age when my periods started I changed overnight. Went to the docs lots of times over the years but nobody recognised back then that it was more than just normal pms. I've suffered terribly from depression over the years and in no way fulfilled my genius intelligence as I was always such a mess. There is help out there now, I'm not saying this is what is wrong with your DD but it is worth looking at. I know the personality change overnight oh so well. Btw most GPs are bloody useless, if you have no joy try a hormone specialist. Good luck ❤️

I'd put money on it being the smart phone at the root of the behaviour not being in Year 7.

You have my sympathy.DD was no bother at all until she was 17, then someone came along and replaced her with a monster child, we never knew whether nice child or nasty child would appear each day. Luckily it only lasted a year but I was at the endvof my tether. I know you saud no phones but one thing that worked for me was to text or whats app DD instead of talking to her directly, even if she was only in her bedroom. It meant that she was in control of the conversation and could choose when or if she replied. It also meant she heard what I said because it was written down, we had many conversations like this and communicated more freely because of it. If it's any consolation she's just finished her law degree and starts solicitor training next week. The other possibility is family therapy which can help you all explore the dynamics of the situation. 🥰🥰

I think you were right to remove the phone - tighten up on restrictions/time used put parental controls on if you haven't already.

Strict boundaries about where she can go and what times.

Time alone in bedroom is completely ok imo.

I'd consider a school move if self harm/vaping/rudeness is completely new.

Get her involved in any activity that she will join in with.

Offer counselling but don't insist, she is clearly utilising school pastoral support and that might be enough for now. Keep good communication with school if she stays there.

As other PP have mentioned I think it's a Y7 transition issue. It was also bad luck that her periods coincided with the start in school - year 7 is already a stressful time for the student without periods starting as well. Periods also create some hormone changes which your daughter is still learning to cope with.
My own behaviour was like this in year 7 & year 8 for similar reasons but I did snap out of it with the help of pastoral staff in my school.
I think your first step should be to contact her Head of Year and take it from there. Good luck 💐

No apology needed, lots of people don't know about the FE option. I hope the work experience goes well for her.

Hi, yes she can but the pre 16 courses need to be funded by the school she’s technically still at. And they are umming and ahhing about whether they have the money. Sorry, should have been clearer that she’s still on roll at the school she’s not been at since December, I’m not letting the LA off the hook that easily. She’s currently doing 2 hours alternative provision a week and just started some work experience.

I agree periods do affect behaviour but it's school and her friends.

They are vaping etc. and thinking about sex.

Move her. She will be nicer.

Drugs, sex, alcohol discussions - keep everything factual and educational so she understands the health side of it. Some things she might say for shock value so try not to be shocked or panick.

Identify your battles and don’t fight about everything. The phone restriction is a fair non negotiable rule.

Before she can talk to you openly about inner turmoil you need to first build a positive line of communication. Look at her interests and find things you can do together (music related, fitness, film, learning a new skill or whatever). Do these things 1:1 and have fun. Try to reconnect. Focus on things you like about her and the things you appreciate about her. Car journeys and walks are great opportunities to chat about things that interest her and things you appreciate about her.

Welcome her friends to your house, offer lifts when needed.

I have even there OP and I know how hard it is. Mine will be 14 next month and we are finally coming out it. Went thru counselor after counselor till we found the right place. If you ever need to talk feel free to pm me. It's hell

@jenecomprendspas24 Just a thought, did you know your DD can go to college at 14? It is different to school and she wouldn't be doing a full set of GCSEs, English, maths and usually single science or biology alongside a level1 or 2 qualification.

Obviously you know your child and this might not be the right thing but is something she and you could consider.

BTW she is getting an education, from you. Education is about more than school and qualifications.