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Discussion over private schools brings out illogical viewpoints, sheer hypocrisy and the worse traits in people?

555 replies

ByPeachJoker · 04/06/2024 23:17

First off, not that it should impact an objective debate, but we do send our son to a private primary school but would consider ourselves middle income earners.

As you can imagine, this is linked to the PMs debate just now, but having read a recent MN thread on a lady who wanted to know how she might be able to avoid paying VAT on school fees should Labour come into power, I was shocked at the vitriol thrown her way. As far as I could tell, the issue wasn't so much that she wanted to avoid the VAT but the majority of comments were coming from people who essentially felt like this lady was somehow getting her comeuppance, that she automatically deserved to suffer some form of penalty just by virtue of choosing to send her DC to a private school. She made a 'bad' choice and should suffer the consequences.

One comment was simply 'how about sending your kids to a state school like 93% of the population'. It completely disregards the fact that there is a child at the heart of this and that a fairly arbitrary tax change is a) going to lead to an additional cost for exactly the same thing and b) for many parents, this change will mean they cannot afford the fees and this may lead to a child's education and social environment being uprooted. I'm not here to necessarily discuss the actual fairness of VAT being imposed on private school fees but more that there is this automatic reaction by a majority of people whenever private schooling is discussed and that this reaction is rooted in nothing logical and is based on the worse of human emotions such that people ignore the fact that many parents are making a financial/lifestyle sacrifice for their children.

Much of it comes from this completely incorrect assumption that you must be wealthy to send your child to a school. I get the impression that many are misinformed and assume that most private schools are like Eton or Harrow and have fees in excess of £20k a year which really is not the case. I think the negativity comes down to the fact that it's people's children that are involved and so people naturally come to see parents who send their kids to private schools as paying for some form of advantage and this being inherently unfair. Now I accept that there are a lot of people who simply could not afford private school fees BUT (and I know this will be incredibly unpopular) to be quite frank, most middle class families can but the parents simply aren't willing to make the financial and lifestyle sacrifice to send their kids to private school and yet they are happy to try and hate on those that do.

Ultimately they might choose to spend their money on a more expensive car, a bigger house, a nicer holiday etc. I used to live in a new build housing development where people in one bedroom flats had brand new Range Rover Sports parked up outside. It was ridiculous that people who could seemingly 'only' afford a 1 bed flat were buying or leasing cars that were almost a third of the value of their home. However we let them make their choice and move on.

Now you can argue about the ethics of private school education but I think those who automatically view parents who send their kids to private school as people who should endure some form of suffering or deserve whatever is coming to them need to look at the hypocrisy they show when compared to their own lifestyle choices but also understand that we're not all millionaires and have actually made a sacrifice for what we hope is the benefit of our children - have you done the same?

OP posts:
FOJN · 04/06/2024 23:51

I don't think VAT on school fees will be a big earner for the government and I don't like it being used so that Labour can be seen to tax the rich.

The rest of your post is the middle class parent equivalent of "if only you ate less avocado on toast you too could afford to buy a house" nonsense.

You may not feel wealthy but having thousands of disposable income to spend on your children's schooling makes you considerably better off than most. I neither envy or begrudge you your good fortune/ rewards for hard work but I find the complaining about being hard done by and judging other parents quite irritating when many parents are making sacrifices just to feed and clothe their children.

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2024 23:44

but also understand that we're not all millionaires and have actually made a sacrifice for what we hope is the benefit of our children - have you done the same?

So your long and boring OP was just a stealth brag about how great a parent you are?

stepfordblanket · 04/06/2024 23:43

I was previously quite 'whatever' on the VAT on private schools thing, but the more threads about this topic come up, the more I hope it actually fucking happens.

Spare me the endless whinging of the fucking middle classes.

Led921900 · 04/06/2024 23:42

I am not sure what you want from this post.
There are many who have no sacrifices they can make in order to send their kids to private school. From Forbes: Workers aged between 40-49 have the highest median weekly pay (£770 for full-time gross pay)

That is equivalent to a salary of £40k a year and even if there are two adults I don’t know what household on £80k a year can afford private schooling regardless if they drive an old mondeo and never take a holiday!

You say as though “paying for some form of advantage and this being inherently unfair.”
Yet private education is am advantage and a privilege, from the curriculum to the class sizes to the amount of support received to the success of students going on to Oxbridge (which disproportionately has an intake from private schools given the percentage of pupils actually educated in one).
“In 2020–2021, just over 6% of children in England attended a private school (DfE (Department for Education) 2021), yet circa 30% of the intake to the elite Universities of Oxford and Cambridge [Oxbridge] were private school students”
The Sutton trust has more information on this here; https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf

Any expenditure over and above your essentials is a luxury. Private schooling is a luxury and a privilege, and though some may just be able to afford it there are many where the fees are well within their means (I include my own family in that remark who do send their children to private schools).

So why should it be VAT exempt when you’re criticizing the cars people are driving or the holidays people are taking which they have paid VAT on?!

I feel sorry for the parents who can’t afford the VAT on top and wonder if it would be more sensible to ramp up adding the VAT over a period of time so parents can potentially move their children onto state schools instead.

But ultimately paying tax on a choice and a luxury is only fair.

https://www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/AccesstoAdvantage-2018.pdf

PuttingDownRoots · 04/06/2024 23:35

Eton fees are £50k per year
My local day school (Yorkshire) is 18k per year at Secondary. So not far off 20k.

It takes a pretty high income to have £1.5k spare monthly after tax, housing, transport bills etc.

I don't particularly care that people chose to pay. Its the best option for some children. Its their money.

I have a bigger problem with people who can't admit they use their high income and/or assets to move into high performing catchment but claim they would never pay for schooling.

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