Discussion over private schools brings out illogical viewpoints, sheer hypocrisy and the worse traits in people?

The more you post, the more you prove what insufferable prig you are.

I'm not offended that you're not seething with jealousy. I never said you were or should be. I said that a lot of people probably resent that there is some unfairness in the system, which is fair enough really.

We had and continue to have smaller class sizes anyway as the birth rate where we live is under the national average and has been declining for a bit. My DC’s schools offer loads of sport clubs and clubs at Junior school and secondary not that my DD is particularly interested. I compare this with my youngest’s friend who went to the £30000 a year school in year 7 and I don’t see the value, of course the extra curricular stuff is quite prominent at the private school but DD’s friend is forced to do their things as her parents need to work and want value for money. DD’s friend says she feels poor amongst her peers (she isn’t) because of the horses and land they own and holidays all of the time. In contrast my DD goes to a school where she is going to the park or beach after school on summer days, I think that is pretty important for development. My 6th former son is the same he is looking at the same RG unis as my privately educated nieces and nephews, i don’t see the value personally.

In the grand scheme of shit going on at the moment whether someone can afford private school fees or not is not really high on my list of things.

BUT VAT on school fees won't just affect children or middle class families or rich, it will have a knock on effect to those who work in schools. Parents not being able to afford the extra VAT mean mess children which mean less people needed, meaning less jobs. Many of those working in schools from cooks, to cleaners to gardeners to teachers to house masters/mistresses to matrons will be affected. Most of whom aren't bloody rich.

When you budget for private education from Reception you’re told to ensure you build in a 100% buffer — ie be prepared for fees to double at some point in your child’s education. So most prep parents will have that. But an immediate increase of 20% will definitely eat into it & if that occurs schools will not be able to increase fees in the same way they did before and still expect parents to take it.

I’m of the opinion that having private schooling available allows state schools to be shit. Because people with money can find an alternative. Same with private healthcare. Without the option of private schools people would have to force their local state schools to be better.

Parents who are forceful, get shit done and perhaps have some spare cash to donate to the school will be a power to improve the state option. Which is then better for everyone.

Perhaps the parents who are campaigning and complaining now about this vat inclusion should have been campaigning and complaining about their poor state options in the first place instead of paying a business, and schools are businesses, for the service.

It will being in more money, about a billion when adjusted to account for a 3-5% drop out rate from private schools. But it's a drop in the ocean.

Adding National Insurance to investment income would raise about £8 billion, equalizing capital gains with income tax £14 billion, a wealth tax (depending on where it was set) up to £262 billion.

Can we have a silo side topic so posts on this subject can be put there like Royal Family / Covid etc? Not sure can bear another month of this hand wringing.

I don't really care who you would want as a parent at your dc's school, it is totally irrelevant to me. If it offends you that I'm not seething with jealousy, then so be it. And if I can't counter the repeated insistence that my beliefs about tax on private school fees can only be inspired by envy or resentment without pointing out that I have nothing to envy or resent, without being described as "smug", then that's fine too.

Fwiw, I have no interest in making private schools unaffordable for anyone. I actually think that the vast majority of private school parents will just suck up the additional cost, however unwillingly. I honestly don't care if people send their kids private or not. I just want to see it taxed in a way that I believe is fair.

I know a lot about SEN. It is a significant part of my job. And the fact is there are many children not getting the help they need as waiting lists are being clogged up by children who are absolutely not the greatest in need and are being labelled needlessly.

@Janedoe82 Again, your use of language, ‘profoundly SEN’, is simply incorrect.

SEN children will never get the help they desperately need and deserve if we continue to use the terms ‘profound’ and ‘mild’!

I’m not convinced a private education would be of more value than the holidays we have taken. We are currently frantically trying to save for our son to head to uni next year, there is no way we would forfeit that for private secondary.

My point is there are many children who have private diagnoses who are absolutely NOT profoundly SEN. The ones I know who have been rejected by the NHS has been because the NHS have actually disagreed with the private diagnosis.

I didn’t choose private school for the academics. Frankly if all I was interested in was grades I would have homeschooled DS.

For me it’s the whole package of small class sizes, daily sports, motivated kids that made me choose it for my adhd son.

He’s only 4 but he doesn’t listen can be incredibly disruptive - in a state school I’m sure he would have been dismissed as a problem within days (like my nephew was). At his school, however, the teacher had time to delve deeper and they realised he’s bored and so gave him extra work and responsibilities.

I personally know children with SEN who have left the private sector to move into state because their needs were not being met, on the other hand.

SEN needs vary don’t they? The majority of children learn better in small classes with teachers who know them well whatever their needs. Many private schools have high academic demands that kids with SEN can’t meet. Some of them will expect kids to do a mountain of extra-curricular stuff that kids with some SEN will find overwhelming. Kids with SEN needs that run beyond what a generic private school setting provides won’t be welcome by many. Those kids remain in the state system.

@Janedoe82 Nobody is diagnosed with ‘mild’ anything, that’s simply untrue. That diagnosis does not exist in the DSM-5. You either are dyslexic, or you are not. You are autistic or you are not. You have ADHD, or you don’t. Whoever told you that their child has ‘mild’ anything, does not have this diagnosed by a health care professional.

The NHS absolutely should accept private diagnosis, I have private diagnosis for my own child (not ‘mild’, an actual diagnosis) because the waiting lists are years long and the system is broken, CAMHS for instance is not fit for purpose.

Our nearest school is £32000 a year I would say that is a pretty luxurious experience- well you bloody hope it would be at that price!

surely Private education is a privilege rather than a luxury ?

Well I know many who have been diagnosed, my own child included, with 'mild' 'processing issues', 'mild dyslexia', 'mild anxiety' 'mild add'. It is almost like a badge in private schools, generally to get the child extra time in exams- you seem a little naive about the lengths pushy parents will go to give their child an advantage. In fact I know of several parents who have been outraged that the NHS then refutes the private diagnosis!!

@OvalLemon it's baffling that you can't grasp that when you choose to pay for something when it's available free, it is a luxury.

If I could afford it I’d send my DD to private school…
what is wrong with the rich sending their kids somewhere and giving them an advantage?? Wouldn’t we all give our kids an advantage in life if we could afford it or had the right connections to?! I sure as hell would…
Of course the majority would give their kids the best education they could afford…

DS like most children under 6 got his diagnosis privately because there’s a 3 year waiting list in most areas & it’s most effective to begin treatments for managing anxiety / socialising before 5.

DS’ diagnosis was actually spotted by his private school (they have 4 teaching assistants with years of SEN experience) because his nursery used to let him do whatever he wanted.

I'm not convinced scrimping and saving for a private education is going to give the average child the same leg up that the equivalent money would as, for example, a deposit for house purchase, money spent on supplementary tutoring, money for university expenses.

OP you may find other people are making "sacrifices" to help their children in other ways that they perceive to be more valuable than a private eduction.

It is a luxury. I have done it. I could have used the local state schools and chose not to. I am not so entitled as to believe I should have that choice subsidised.

@Janedoe82 As a teacher or parent?

I’ve never met any children that are ‘not bright’ and who have diagnosis because of this. Every single one I’ve ever met meets the criteria of the condition they’ve been diagnosed with. You are also suggesting that there are many unscrupulous health care professionals who will just give out a diagnosis to an unintelligent child, which I do not believe is the case either.

Actually as somebody looking at both state and private schools currently… I do. How incorrectly presumptuous of you.

Not sure what this golden ticket status nonsense means..