Excluding a friend?

Have you spoken to Friend 1 yet?

You and your friends are all victim blaming

I’ve got a solution @StephPlum add F1 to the WhatsApp group. See what the reaction is from F2

Look at how the main players in this are behaving.

F1, quietly upset over her child either being or feeling bullied, continues to include F2 in activities, talks privately to F2 about the incident, leaves the WhatsApp group to avoid friction.

F2 loudly and noticeably upset over accusations of her child participating in bullying, sees this as a choice between one or the other as a member of the group, talks publically about the incident on the WhatsApp group, continues to raise the topic and instigate friction.

When people show you who they are, believe them. F1 has acted with some grace and dignity and removed her child from the environment. F2 is repeatedly and perhaps performatively upset that her child has been criticised.

OP, you say you don’t want to take sides. But by doing this you’re suggesting both are equally at fault. I don’t think that’s true…

F2 is quite hurt that you see f2 at all. Are you even reading what you’re writing. Can you not bloody see F3 is dictating you guys and does not want you all to be friend with F1?

You guys are choosing to leave out our F1 from group things just so f2 can attend. You and your friends like it or not have chosen sides and that is f2. Bending over backwards for f2

I swear I heard this exact debate among the Young Tories at the Oxford Union in the 90s. 😀

@StephPlum
I think you’re not listening because deep down, you know that F2 is in the wrong. You may not have realised initially, but slowly over time you have. And that you have treated F1 badly. That’s hard to admit to yourself and even harder to put right.

You could continue as you are, dig yourself in even deeper and continue to be an active part of this bullying, Or not, ultimately it’s up to you. It’s not up to your friends, it’s up to you to decide what you and your conscience can live with.

I believe I may have the solution: SUDDEN DEATH PLAY-OFF

Invite everyone (including the men) round to yours for Debate Night. With snacks. Undertake to implement the winning motion.

Motion 1(proposal): this House believes that Friend 1 should be permanently excluded from the House.

Motion 2(counterproposal): this House believes that nobody should be excluded from the House: disputes between members should be left at the door.

If Motion 1 sounds bad, that's because it is. F2 wants you all to drop F1 and will whinge relentlessly until you do.

We've all tried telling you this in different ways, but you're obviously not listening.

I agree, friend 2 is the one giving the ultimatum and trying to get friend 1 ostracised, even though friend 1 is the injured party and your group is 'staying neutral' by taking friend 2's side.

So friend 1 not only has to move her child in an important school year, but they also lose their mum friendship group.

You need to be a better friend to friend 1. Are you afraid friend 2 will cut you out of the group too?

I initially replied YANBU but I think I am changing my mind, in part. Do you always do everything as a group or do you meet up individually too? All my good friends, I would sometimes meet one or one for a coffee or walk to really catch up in a way that doesn't quite happen in a group. I think that YABU to have group get togethers that exclude friend 1 as as far as I can see she has done nothing wrong and is more than happy include friend 2. But I would meet up with friend 2 individually to maintain that friendship and pave the way for her to hopefully join in with the group again eventually

I hope Friend 1 focuses on spending time with her actual friends. None of you are friends to her.

Friend 2 is a manipulative bully.

The rest of you are participating in Friend 2’s bullying.

It’s no surprise that Friend 1 had other friends and Friend 2 does not. Remember your behaviour when Friend 2 turns on you too. Because she will.

Friend 2 has said she wants nothing to do with friend 1 ever again. She's been holding firm to that since the beginning and has repeated the same to everyone in our wider circle.

F2 won't be happy until the entire group has turned their back on F1 - ironic because that would be tantamount to bullying! F2 is used to being bullish until the rest of the group falls in behind her and gives her her own way. You need to stand firm this time and, if anyone miraculously grows a pair and isn't too afraid to stand up to her, tell her it's all a bit childish.

Friend 1 had been less fixed. Her view at the start was that she hoped to reconcile, though she wouldn't make any apologies. After a few weeks her stance was that they are adults and she'd be happy it they could just exchange niceties whenever they come across each other.

Because Friend 1 is an adult. No foot stamping there, even though she is the injured party.

Your group really need to step back and see F2's behaviour for what it is. She may be 'fun and organised' but she's so manipulative and demanding.

The bullying is being completely side swiped and it's really not fair.

Your group friendship won't survive this

Better to socialise with people separately for a while, and see how things turn out

Not sure it was wise to post here. Your story is quite identifiable / easily recognised by the parties involved

All of these comments!

Skilled bullies will be lovely to others apart from their target deliberately so that the “oh X can’t be a bully, he/ she is so lovely” narrative takes hold.

Friend 2 being the “most outgoing” clearly raises alarm bells too.

The most effective bullies are the ones with special skills in gaslighting and charm. They leave you for dead and take all your friends.

100% agree with this. It's almost like friend 1 is being bullied by proxy by the rest of you. I'm sure you don't see it like this and I do appreciate that you perhaps feel 'caught in the middle' a bit. However, you have to look at the whole situation and surely you can see that friend 2, and the rest of you, are being unfair to friend 1.

Totally.
And when you speak up others say that you must have misunderstood them, or they probably didn't mean it because they're so nice.
And even if they see something they discount it and turn it round to say that you're the problem.

It's part of why being bullied feels so awful. You thought the person bullying you was nice, and you can't understand what's happened. It erodes your self-confidence, your judgement and it trashes your mental health.

When nasty people are nasty, you can make allowances for it. When nice people are nasty, you second-guess yourself and you wonder if you're the problem somehow.

The most effective bullies are the ones with special skills in gaslighting and charm. They leave you for dead and take all your friends.

Bullies are quite capable of being charming when they want to be. They are charming round people that either will call them out or they want to keep on their side.

But the fact that they can turn it off shows that they can help it and it's a deliberate decision on their part which, to me, makes it far worse.
If they were just struggling then they'd react the same to others.

Friend 2's child bullied Friend 1's child.

Friend 2 showed no remorse and positioned Friend 1 as being in the wrong for telling everyone that her child had been bullied and she was having to sort out a change of schools. Did it not occur to Friends 3, 4 and 5 at that point to reach out to Friend 1 privately and ask if she was OK?

Friends 3, 4 and 5 just want to socialise. That is their only aim. It's not convenient to them when Friends 1 or 2 are upset. They are looking for evidence Friend 1 and/or her child made stuff up, so they brush this all under the carpet for an easy life. That's their response: not to sympathise, but to avoid/ignore.

Friend 1 has other friends. Thankfully. Because Friends 2, 3, 4 and 5 are not friends to her. You're all treating her poorly.

Friend 2 doesn't care if her actions hurt other people. The correct response is, 'I'm really sorry, I can't explain why my child did that. I'm going to handle this, and I hope you know I do not think any of this behaviour is acceptable. I understand if you need me to step back from the group for a while, but I really don't want us to permanently fall out over our children, as your friendship means the world to me.'

The correct response is not 'OMG, ur so nasty, y r u telling ppl that my child is bully?? UR a bully!'

The fact that Friends 3, 4 and 5 have stood back does not mean they are neutral. It means they have sided with Friend 2 and think it's perfectly acceptable to treat your so-called friends like shit.

At some point, either Friend 3, 4 or 5 will have something go wrong for them, and will wonder why the rest of the group is not supporting them. Then they'll remember this.

The group is dead. You all killed it.

I'd leave the group because you make poor decisions together, and the other people are not making you your best self. Reflect on how you handled all of this, learn from it, and make new friends. People who support you, who you support, people who make you want to be accountable. This group is toxic and honestly, you'd all be better for making new, different connections.

It is mindblowing how poor a friend you have been to F1.

You’ve minimised, constantly, the bullying F2’s child metered out to her child for over two years, culminating in her removing her child from the school! People do not cause that much upheaval over nothing. Wise up.

You’ve lapped up the controlling, self-indulgent tantrums of F2, including her wishes that you stop seeing F1. She is playing the victim and so in awe of this woman are you, that you’re not only indulging it, you’re defending it.

You actually exclude F1 on F2’s say-so, because even though F1 is gracious enough to attend an event where F2 is, F2 refuses.

You sound like a total sycophant and I really think, if this is real, that you should be ashamed. And grow up.

Wait - issues with bullying went on for 2 YEARS?

So you're leaving friend 1 out to appease friend 2? That's just unkind. You're allowing friend 2 to manipulate the situation so that it suits her.

You think friend 1 should have kept quiet about her child being bullied about friend 2's child? Why?