Excluding a friend?

Friend 2 doesn't want any of you to be friends with friend 1 at the moment.

FTFY

Friend 2 sounds very manipulative, controlling and “woe is me”. The fact that she completely minimised the bullying her child was involved in is a big red flag too. She’s embarrassed and trying to exclude Friend 1 to cover her up her own failings as as parent is my take.

Totally this. I've been bullied over the last few years by someone who I thought of as a friend and I worked with. She has not responded at any point to me trying to smooth things over or reach out olive branches. She's also bullied several other people who quietly left, and only recently have I become aware. Now others are commenting because they have seen things, and suddenly she's terribly distressed. Not enough to apologise at all, but she's doing a big "woe is me. I feel terrible being accused of bullying, and it's so unfair that people are thinking badly" of her. And she's continuing to lie about me.

There is absolutely no remorse and it's all about how dreadful she feels because of being accused. There is no sympathy at all for the fact I have been suicidal and deeply depressed. If anything she's rather gleeful about it.
And the reason she has been able to behave like that and continue to behave like that is because there's a small group of vocal people who fall for the "poor little me" act and whenever she's been caught pat her on the head and say how much they know she's doing her best and trying so hard and they know she couldn't possibly have meant it...

I honestly believe that if that group gave her some tough love and told her that yes she has been bullying, and no they won't let her do it again, and they will stick up for her victims then it would have been better all round. Because, you know what, I'm off now, and I can totally guarantee she'll pick her next victim, and it might be one of them.

Friend 1 is a bigger person than I am. If my dc was being bullied to the extent I had to change their school and my ‘friend’ minimised it rather than trying to resolve it properly, I wouldn’t speak to her again. Never mind being prepared to still socialise together.

Friend 1 is the only one being reasonable here. She made efforts to reach out to friend 2 before Christmas but was ignored. Sounds like friend 2 makes a habit of falling out with people and perhaps that is why she has no one outside of the group.

I also see how much more upset friend 2 is about it all, and that she doesn't really have anyone outside of our group (which I think is part of why it's all so devastating for her).

There’s always a reason why people don’t have anyone…

I mean quite apart from the fact that presumably she told friend 2 in the hope friend 2 would DO something about the bullying, surely the rest of you would have asked anyway about why her child had moved schools given you were so close? Then if she'd told you it's because her dc was being bullied friend 2 would feel as though she was talking about her behind her back and probably be unhappy about that too. Unless you expect friend 1 to lie about the reason for the school move it would have inevitably come out at some point.

Friend 2 shouldn’t be condoning the bullying of her child then should she?

Just remember, once someone shows their true colours, take note.

it’s easy to side with friend 2 while you’re not the one she’s turning people against, but don’t think for a minute that you’re immune.

friend 2 sounds like a manipulative bitch, and you are all just as bad. Friend doesn’t need friends like you.

So friend 1 was happy to continue the friendship with 2 to whatever extent 2 could manage, and will share space civilly with 2 if they attend the same events, including inviting 2 to her home. No wonder she's got an active social life and plenty of friends.

Friend 2 has refused to consider friendship with 1, and expects other friends not to attend events that she chooses not to attend because 1 will be there. And you say she has no other friends? And because of her you're ALL going to have one less after this. Hmmm.

I genuinely can't understand why you are entertaining 2's attempts to 'punish' 1. If 1 were on here telling their side of this story they would be told to fuck you all off for being terrible friends.

Aside from the fact that 1 had no reason to lie about the bullying, esp considering the school move, 2 is so clearly manipulating you all into excluding 1 and you seem to expect 1 to be sympathetic and collude in her own poor treatment! I'm truly boggled!

Just because friend 1 said it was so, doesn't mean it was. If the school also saw nothing wrong, as well as other children, then it may well have been nothing more than Friend 2's child having other friends as well as his mum's friend's child. Said boy didn't like this, and perceived it as being bullied, especially if he has a mother prone to victimhood and 'nuclear options'.

Friend 1 has dropped a bomb on friend 2, and now expects her to act like everything is a ok while this other friend thinks her child is a bully.

Friend 1 should just carry on as she is, and if friend 2 wants to join then she can. And you guys can see friend 2 if you want as well.

Friend 2 doesn't want to be friends with friend 1 at the moment. She is hurt by her child being accused of bullying, and being expected to brush that away. Friend 1 isn't allowing friend 2 the time or space to move past that. Maybe they won't reconcile, doesn't mean you others have to pick a team.

Agree with the majority - the rest of you should carry on inviting both of them to everything, if friend 2 doesn't want to come that's on her.

It's very unlikely that friend 1 would go to the upheaval of moving a year 6 child unless there was significant evidence of bullying.

Perhaps friend 2's kid wasn't the main instigator and she feels her kid has been unfairly maligned but friend 1 has moved her kid and tried to draw a line under the whole thing- friend 2 can feel upset if she wants but she's the only one extending the drama, and she doesn't get to choose who the rest of you spend time with. If she doesn't have many other friends then you think she'd be keen to take up friend 1's olive branch, not try to "punish" friend 2 by removing her from the friendship group.

Friend 1 is trying to be fair by still inviting friend 2 to things despite probably not really wanting to see her, making an effort so the group doesn't have to choose sides, and then you all effectively chose friend 2 anyway! I can definitely see why friend 1 would be upset. At the worst her child was bullied and now her friends are siding with the bully's mother because shes manipulating you into feeling sorry for her. At best she's tried to be an adult about the situation to keep the group together and you've left her out anyway.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if the reason friend 2 doesn't have any other friends is because she's got form for this. She sounds very manipulative.

Exactly this.

You are essentially supporting the bullying child and bully’s mother, and also victimising family 1 by leaving them out and allowing them to have no choice but to leave the WhatsApp group.

It’s that bit in brackets that I think is kind of crucial though. Realistically, there is only one way for friend 2 to maintain her other friendships in a way that’s any way comfortable. I think if you want to be close friends with other parents at your child’s school, you’re going to have to be pragmatic about how you land any uncomfortable child-based stuff with those parents - I don’t think you can reasonably expect your friend to say oh so sorry your child thinks mine’s an awful bully and you’re moving them in year 6 because of it, see you tomorrow for bottomless brunch.

They’re not going to get to that point though, because the group are allowing Friend 2 to manipulate them into leaving out Friend 1. If you really genuinely wish they would work it through, do what Lemonyyy is saying her friends did - continue to invite everyone to everything, then the onus is on Friend 2 to get over it.

But @StephPlum Friend 1 has got to this point, hasn't she? It's Friend 2 who has not so it's within her power to change that dynamic and agree to move on. She can choose not to do that, of course, it's up to her but I really wouldn't be siding with the friend who has made no effort to move on over the one who has. That would seem really strange to me.

Friend 1 invited us all to hers recently and friend 2 was so upset we all went.
If we invite them both friend 1 will come, which means 2 won't and then 2 will be so upset.

So they've fallen out (not your business why). And only one of them has said you must pick one to exclude. I believe this conundrum solves itself.

I can't imagine how difficult it was to decide to move your child to a different school, in year 6, when two of your friends have children who go there. So on that basis, the bullying allegations must have had some legs.

The issue is that friend 2 has painted herself into a corner by saying that no bullying has occurred. She can't undo that easily and keep face.

It's a shame, but I think friend 1 is not in the wrong here.

I’ll be truthful, I think friend 2 sounds quite emotionally manipulative. A lot of childhood bullying is centred around manipulation/pushing emotional boundaries.

The fact that Friend 2 has also said the group is not sustainable is a clear message that she has no plans to make up with Friend 1. 'She was really devastated at the prospect of the latter' I bet she was! Because it doesn't include her!

Invite them both to everything and leave it up to them to decide if they want to come. They are adults and they should be able to work this out on their own. That said, no matter who is right or wrong, if Friend 1 left the WhatsApp group that you use to organise getting together, it's hardly right for her to be upset that she isn't included in what you organise anymore. She deleted herself from the group.

I have a friend like this. She used to message me all the time to ask if she could come to stay with us. It wasn't convenient (she always wanted to come during the week during school holidays as works a TTO job, but dh and I are busy with work during the week, even during school holidays, and it's a stressful time to have a house guest while balancing childcare and work). Eventually she got annoyed that we wouldn't give her a date for a visit so she deleted my number and blocked me on social media. She then got back in touch to say she was made we still never invited her around. But she deleted and blocked me.

I think the fair thing would be to say to Friend 1 that you'll re-add her to the group if she wants to be kept in the loop. Then between them they can work out what get togethers they'll attend. But keep inviting them both if you want to maintain your friendship with them both.

I have been in a similar scenario, in which I fell out with a friend who was part of a group. Our friends continued to invite everyone to everything so the onus was on us to sort it out or move on, and we tried not to let it affect dynamics too much. We can attend events together fine, although wouldn't hang out just the two of us anymore. I think that's the only way to do it really without it affecting the wider group.

I do worry its probably the end of us all getting together as a group

Jeez. THAT is your worry? 🙄

I'm trying my best not to take sides

Really?

Well.....on here you're doing a bloody good job of siding with F2