Excluding a friend?

Listen, I agree with what others are saying about you have sided with friend 2. In fact, I'm almost wondering if you are friend 2, because you seem oblivious to how much you are siding with them.

But taking it at face value , I described upthread how I've been bullied by an ex-friend. Do you know what really hurts the most?
The people who try and pretend to be both friends. The ones who say "you know we have to be kind, so we'll pretend person 2 hasn't done anything wrong." "We can't possibly call them out because they might be upset". Because actually by "being kind" to the bully and telling them not to worry they can't possibly have done anything wrong, actually isn't being kind to me. It's enabling the bullying and calling me a liar. And it's exactly because of those people that it has been allowed to continue.
I am confident that if one or two of those people had stepped out and said "I am not letting it continue, you are the issue" then friend 2 would have backed down.

You've heard the expression "For evil to flourish, it only requires good men to do nothing"?
That's exactly what it is. You are allowing the situation to continue bullying friend 1 because you are doing nothing.
There isn't a neutral stance here. You are either supporting friend 1 or you are supporting friend 2.

Because friend 2 is refusing to have anything to do with friend 1, that is why there isn't a neutral stance. Friend 2 is the one causing it, and is manipulating you into excluding friend 1.

Sounds like friend 2 is doubling down.

Her kid has probably been bullying Friend 1’s kid. On one level friend 2 is ashamed and embarrassed and probably sees it as a judgement on her parenting. Rather than face these difficult feelings, it’s easier to blame someone else. So she’s doubling down and playing the victim.

Friend 1 has been reasonable because she doesn’t have a guilty conscience. People don’t move their kids without good reason.

Friend 2 needs to be told that she needs to get over it. From now on, all invitations go to everyone.

I was friend 1 many years ago. Friend 2s dd and my dd were really close until a the dd couldn't manipulate my child so made up lies about her and her mums reaction affected our friendship group. Friend would act distraught if she found out my dd and myself mixed with friends and their kids. Ended up my poor dd having to move on from this group and for me I had to do the same. The friend eventually was seen to be the dramatic witch she was but too late as the damage was done. Don't let this happen to friend 1.

I've a DC that has been the subject of bullying. Leaving DC out, asking DC to play then running away from DC, deliberately excluding DC and isolating DC from other kids in the class where DC has had nobody to play with.

I know the mum well, however they believe their DC is sweet and innocent and wouldn't believe their child would be involved in anything like that so I haven't approached the parent, I tried gently previously and it was shot down as their DC denied it. They are very PFB about their DC.

So I've tried to go via the school, trying not to make a big thing out of it, I've tried to see if giving them time apart would help heal the rift, if encouragement of different friends and interests and starting my DC at clubs outside school so they can meet friends there.

I can tell you it's absolutely heartbreaking every day, my child coming home to tell me they were excluded or lonely again in school. Having them cry at bedtime because they are worried about the next day at school.

So friend 1 has my absolute sympathy. I'm at my whits end, I know approaching the other parent won't end well (I'm not sure I trust myself to be as unemotional about it as i once could have been) and school have/are trying all they can so if friend 1 has gotten to the point of moving her child school she must have really exhausted all other options. I suspect the reason she hasn't approached friend 2 before now is because she knew this is the response she would get and was trying her best to preserve some sort of friendship.

But somehow you're painting friend 2 as the victim and the wronged party here and friend 2 seems to be lapping up that role.

OP, I do not think you should have posted here for advice. I do not think that any of this is helpful.

@StephPlum are you generally a peacemaker? Do you find conflict difficult? I think maybe you are instinctively wanting the path to least resistance, and as DF2 is still at the school your child attends and is very upset, you think it would have been better if DF1 hadn't rocked the boat.

I would suggest you take a step back and think of the things people have said to you upthread. Why on earth would a parent move their child in year 6? Why would the school have agreed to make changes so that the children were distanced? What on earth would DF1 be gaining from leaving the school where her friends take their children, and isolating her DC? It just isn't realistically likely that it was all made up.

That brings you to DF2. Why would it be in her interests to deny that her child was involved in bullying? What would she gain? What did she do differently in the situation? It is far more likely that she would think that she would lose your friendships if she acknowledged that her child had been unkind.

The saddest thing is, that if she had admitted it, it sounds like DF1 would have been magnanimous and it would have all blown over.

Well invite her then. She's probably just being tactful, and much good it's done her - the hostilities against her continue!

I mean like... Yeah... Who would

I know, right?

sigh

OP, can you not see that by all appearances, you've sided with Friend 2?

I have been Friend 1, including the moving of my child to another primary school. It hurt like hell, and what hurt even more, was losing friends over it because no one wanted to rock the 'social circle' and found it easier to boot me. Like my child had been essentially booted.

Moving schools is a drastic last resort for most parents, including me, and probably including Friend 1. It's not done lightly or quickly or easily. Have a good hard look at how it looks to Friend 1 here....

Friend 2 is no wall flower and quick to voice her opinion so If I was friend 1 I would just have kept quiet if I didn't want an explosive situation and the victims of abuse should keep quiet to avoid making things worse for themselves? The child shouldn’t have spoken out I suppose?

do you always victim blame OP? Do you tell your children not to confide in anyone if they’re bullied and hold them responsible?

The last line of this is pretty damning. You all secretly think Friend 1 and her DC should've just tolerated her being picked on and excluded and said nothing rather than upset Friend 2. Would you do the same if it were your child being bullied by Friend 2's child? Are you intimidated by her?

Friend 2 seriously needs to grow up. She does not have to be besties with friend 1, but she should be able to be civil. Friend 1 has been mature and thoughtful (imagine if you all found out later that friend 1 knew friend 2's was involved but did not say anything - she would have been excoriated). FWIW I dont think I would want my kids around the child of a parent who behaves this way.

Surely you invite both to group things and then catch up with friend 2 separately (as in individually) if you want to see her. She is encouraging you to exclude friend 1 which is exactly what her child is accused of!

Good lord what have I just read? Friend 2 is awful and you dont seem any better.

You have honestly, and repeatedly, said you think friend 1 should keep her childs bullying to herself, to not upset the bullies mother? The bullying was so bad the child moved schools in Y6?

I dread to think what sort of mother you are that you think this is ok. Say your child is bullied by friend 2? Will you tell them to keep it quiet so as to not upset your social group? Wtf?!

Friend 2's son was isolating Friend 1's son, but it sounds like Friend 2 doesn't think this is a form of bullying. It's a shame her friends seem to agree with her seeing as they are also happy to do it.

Yep this

Lemme get this straight, friend 2 is explosive, overbearing and lacks the ability to see things from others’ perspectives. Then turns victim when she’s told that her friend still wants to be her friend even thought her dc caused all manner of issues. And you’re still wondering if the bullying did or didn’t take place and who you should and shouldn’t stay friends with.

The answer is pretty clear to me. You’re being manipulated by friend 2 to drop friend 1.

You’ve VERY clearly taken sides, I’m shocked that you can’t see that.

Friend 2s child was involved in bullying serious enough that friend 1 moved her child which is not a light decision

“Friend 2 is finding things harder then friend 1”.
“Friend 1 has more friends”

“I think friend 1 should make more of an effort” why? Seriously. Friend 2 has called her child a liar, a tell tale and dismissed her.

Your dismissal of friend 1 and your desperate want to make friend 2 happy whilst shafting friend 1 is wholly unpleasant.

This. The other thing is that it is not the end of the world to be told your child is a bully. Children are not born perfect and need guidance and I say that someone who was bullied remorselessly in secondary school. My dgd was also bullied for while, but I have always seen how easy it would be for her to fall into bullying if we didn't do our best to guide her.

As for friend 2, I'm in the camp of those who think she is a manipulative so-and-so

obviously just put F1 back on WhatsApp then invite everyone to everything

Yes - and friend 2 can take it or leave it.

I think this friendship group is toxic as you’re all wanting friend 1 to pretend nothing’s happened and grovel to friend 2 so that the rest of you can carry on partying as before.

Parents don’t move their kids to new school just for the fun of it. Their child must be really hurting.

If I was friend 1 and had had to move my child to a different school, of course I’d be raising it with friend 2 as the parent of one of the perpetrators. I’d do that even if I didn’t know the parent from Adam.

The fact that you want them both to pretend it’s no big deal and shouldn’t affect the adults, doesn't really surprise me though.

Friend 2 sounds a manipulative bitch to be honest.

Yep, friend 1 should have kept her silly self quiet about her DC being bullied, in order to prevent the bully’s parent kicking off and causing issues in the group.