Page 5 | To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

JenniferAnistonsHair2023 · 2023-10-04T17:29:46+00:00

I work for a FTSE100 firm, been there a long time. No historical performance issues. Mid 50s, senior role, quite high pressure. At the start of this year I went down to 4 days in an attempt to slow down a little. I'm menopausal, anxious, permanently tired (insomnia) - you get the picture. On HRT which has helped but doesn't turn you back into the person you were when you were 30. My last performance review I was pretty much told I'm underperforming. This came as a shock to me as I'm managing a full time workload in 4 days. Was given some areas to focus on which I'm trying my hardest to do, but part of me thinks I'm just not good enough any more. Decide to contact HR today to discuss what constitutes 'reasonable adjustments' to my role because of menopause symptoms. (We have a policy published on our intranet). HR helpline pretty much just told me that I need to work things out with my manager. Made the point that my manager was the problem and I didn't feel comfortable discussing menopause with a 50 something male with no training on the matter. Still get a 'computer says no' response. I mean, what's the fucking point of having a policy? I'm losing the will to live. On top of all that I'm asked to do a day of meetings which involves 3 hours of travelling either side next week, with no opportunity to take any of that time back. I refused on the basis that there was a dial-in option and that I wasn't willing to go massively over my 28 hours for the week (there are times when I have to travel when f2f is the only option and that's fine, I suck it up). AIBU? Has anyone got experience of a workplace where they have a better menopause policy so that I can consider applying?!

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:28

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/10/2023 13:24

Your patronising “dear” is infinitely more offensive than explaining that someone shit themselves.

To you maybe.. I guess our sense of outrage definitely differs according to what our internal code dictates. Dear vs 'sh**'' - would you prefer your child said the latter? OK you do you then.

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:26

honeycombhead · 05/10/2023 13:25

Oh bless your innocent little cotton socks.

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My little old cotton socks are feeling very blessed now you mention it.

honeycombhead · 05/10/2023 13:25

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:22

Your tired old trope does not gloss over the fact that your language is gross and vulgar, dear.

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Oh bless your innocent little cotton socks.

Jellycatspyjamas · 05/10/2023 13:24

Your patronising “dear” is infinitely more offensive than explaining that someone shit themselves.

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:22

JenniferAnistonsHair2023 · 05/10/2023 13:21

This isn't Netmums hun.

Your tired old trope does not gloss over the fact that your language is gross and vulgar, dear.

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:22

RaeHitsEbSire · 05/10/2023 13:18

You said your manager 'sh' himself.... Absolutely unnecessary to be so coarse and vulgar.

😂

Another one who thinks that gross terms are ok from a grown woman in an professional job.. OK you do you as they say. So glad to not be like you!!

Original poster

JenniferAnistonsHair2023 · 05/10/2023 13:21

This isn't Netmums hun.

OP posts:

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:20

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/10/2023 13:14

Oh dear - I suspect you haven’t been on MN long if that’s what upset you. Perhaps you should change your name to Hyacinth Bucket.

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Nope been on here ages thanks Chaz! But maybe we just have different ideas around what we consider to be appropriate in terms of how we choose to express ourselves. You crack on lovely if agree that using such vulgar words and expressions are OK... I am sure it sounds charming. Would you like to hear your children talk like this? If so, then I can see why we disagree.

RaeHitsEbSire · 05/10/2023 13:18

You said your manager 'sh' himself.... Absolutely unnecessary to be so coarse and vulgar.

😂

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/10/2023 13:14

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:12

You said your manager 'sh**' himself.... Absolutely unnecessary to be so coarse and vulgar. I would be mad with any of my children speaking like this but you are a grown woman talking in this way. If you cannot see how vulgar this is then clearly this is on you.

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Oh dear - I suspect you haven’t been on MN long if that’s what upset you. Perhaps you should change your name to Hyacinth Bucket.

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 13:12

JenniferAnistonsHair2023 · 05/10/2023 13:07

@SiousieSoo unless we have a vastly different understanding of what constitutes gross and vulgar language, I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You said your manager 'sh**' himself.... Absolutely unnecessary to be so coarse and vulgar. I would be mad with any of my children speaking like this but you are a grown woman talking in this way. If you cannot see how vulgar this is then clearly this is on you.

RampantIvy · 05/10/2023 13:10

I just want to give some hope to anyone suffering while going through the menopause.

I am out the other side, and things do get better. Gone are the hot flushes and debilitating migraines
Hello menopause belly and thinning hair

I feel that my brain is back in gear, and at work I am known for having the sharpest brain on the team (I won't see 60 again)

However, I do feel that there is a danger that blaming too much stuff on hormones - PMT, pregnancy, menopause, is beginning to give women a bad name, and a handle for men to use against us.

Original poster

JenniferAnistonsHair2023 · 05/10/2023 13:07

@SiousieSoo unless we have a vastly different understanding of what constitutes gross and vulgar language, I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about.

OP posts:

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 12:56

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/10/2023 12:51

You aren’t sorry at all. You could have closed the thread but instead you gleefully stuck the boot in. Why post at all if that was your sole contribution?

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Sorry not sorry..Who are you to police my comments? She sounds gross and vulgar to speak in that way and this is an opinion I am permited to express. I am allowed to respond the same as you are, so please just pipe down and have a cup of tea or something.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 05/10/2023 12:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You aren’t sorry at all. You could have closed the thread but instead you gleefully stuck the boot in. Why post at all if that was your sole contribution?

SiousieSoo · 05/10/2023 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

exchonnet · 05/10/2023 12:39

I hate all this menopause obsession. Why on earth do you need to have a policy to deal with a perfectly normal biological process ? It's a sure fire way to make women even more a target of discrimination in the work place

Pregnancy is a perfectly normal biological process yet we have policies around that. Primarily to ensure the health of women and to avoid sex based discrimination.

No difference with menopause

Remagirl · 05/10/2023 12:39

MorvernBlack · 05/10/2023 11:39

I think some women are clueless about what menopause can mean for other women. A bit of insomnia and night sweats is the light end of it. I was terrified I had Alzheimers, couldn't think on my feet, couldn't have discussions/meetings because I couldn't remember names or even remember what I was talking about. Couldn't take in new info at all. My joints were so, so painful and I was vomiting with anxiety, then wetting myself when I vomited.

I know too many women who have given up work or had to reduce their hours, women who lost confidence in driving etc.

And as for those scornful ones who think they've sailed through it - menopause can be the gift that keeps on giving, my Mum was one of those, 5yrs later she started with vaginal atrophy, now she can't be examined and even her underwear makes her bleed. She has constant UTIs, panic attacks, can't drive anymore.

I hope the scornful women on this thread are just 4chan scum. I'd hate to think that women I work/live amongst are so unempathetic. Although I know a few who can't comprehend heavy periods or period pain, so it's not a leap to suspect there are.

It's not feminism to succeed whilst crushing other women. It's not feminism to assume we are the same as men. Equity and equality are not the same thing.

Thank you 🙏🏼 x

justasking111 · 05/10/2023 12:32

Hellaweirdhuh · 05/10/2023 10:03

He doesn't know anything about OP struggling with the menopause!

She hasn't raised it with him because she doesn't want to talk to a man about it.

He could respond brilliantly for all we and OP know but he hasn't even been given a chance to.

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Anecdotally at my practice my male GPs both late fifties have been brilliant. The two female GPS much younger who have been busy having babies so still fecund less so.

I smile imagining the male GPs are educating themselves fast because of their own wives 😂

My friends son now a doctor said menopause was a couple of lectures during his education

needtonamechangeagain · 05/10/2023 12:18

Tara24 · 04/10/2023 21:15

I hate all this menopause obsession. Why on earth do you need to have a policy to deal with a perfectly normal biological process ? It's a sure fire way to make women even more a target of discrimination in the work place.

I'm 50 and work full time. Sure, tired from insomnia , but no more so than the young parents I work with. Why can't age and experience be seen as a positive thing ? Why can't being in our fifties be seen as when our experience shines through? But instead you want a snowflake policy and to whinge about 'slowing down" like you're 80. Ugh.

You sound lovely

MorvernBlack · 05/10/2023 11:39

I think some women are clueless about what menopause can mean for other women. A bit of insomnia and night sweats is the light end of it. I was terrified I had Alzheimers, couldn't think on my feet, couldn't have discussions/meetings because I couldn't remember names or even remember what I was talking about. Couldn't take in new info at all. My joints were so, so painful and I was vomiting with anxiety, then wetting myself when I vomited.

I know too many women who have given up work or had to reduce their hours, women who lost confidence in driving etc.

And as for those scornful ones who think they've sailed through it - menopause can be the gift that keeps on giving, my Mum was one of those, 5yrs later she started with vaginal atrophy, now she can't be examined and even her underwear makes her bleed. She has constant UTIs, panic attacks, can't drive anymore.

I hope the scornful women on this thread are just 4chan scum. I'd hate to think that women I work/live amongst are so unempathetic. Although I know a few who can't comprehend heavy periods or period pain, so it's not a leap to suspect there are.

It's not feminism to succeed whilst crushing other women. It's not feminism to assume we are the same as men. Equity and equality are not the same thing.

usernother · 05/10/2023 11:08

Tara24 · 04/10/2023 21:15

I hate all this menopause obsession. Why on earth do you need to have a policy to deal with a perfectly normal biological process ? It's a sure fire way to make women even more a target of discrimination in the work place.

I'm 50 and work full time. Sure, tired from insomnia , but no more so than the young parents I work with. Why can't age and experience be seen as a positive thing ? Why can't being in our fifties be seen as when our experience shines through? But instead you want a snowflake policy and to whinge about 'slowing down" like you're 80. Ugh.

I agree with this.

Olive19741205 · 05/10/2023 10:57

Hibiscrubbed · 05/10/2023 07:55

Right. Anyone else pretty much over how MN has become a place where instead of trying to help and support posters, who are usually women, posters now fall all over themselves to ridicule, mock, and deride those asking for help? On literally any topic.

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Yes I've noticed this happening much more recently. It doesn't matter the subject matter, just give the OP a kicking and mock them repeatedly. Even though the nasty posters have no experience of what an OP may be asking advice about. The ones here saying "I've not started menopause yet but just get on with it you snowflake" 🙄

honeycombhead · 05/10/2023 10:49

Name changed briefly as I am sick of receiving abuse for being open about my menopausal symptoms.

I've been struggling hugely. HRT, an increase in antidepressants and mindfulness have made a small dent, but I am still struggling.

Luckily I have an amazing manager who has been incredibly supportive. I honestly didn't know how work could help me, so he went and investigated and came with ideas for me. So, on his suggestions - I have my hours down to 30 hours from 38, and work these flexibly. In theory I have friday off each week, but can make up hours lost during the week if I need to. So if I have literally had no sleep the night before, I can start work later. Or I can finish earlier if I can zero focus. They have paid for me to receive counselling (not started yet). He has a 15 minute weekly check in with me just to see how I am doing. And most importantly, rather than my role being entirely self led, I am receiving more guidance in what I need to be doing - as this is an area I am struggling with a lot due to the brain fog. I'm the only menopausal woman in our company so far, so am hoping what we start doing now will help other women in the future.

Janieforever · 05/10/2023 10:30

Sadly op yes, you will need to speak to him if you wish this resolved. You have been given the advice of putting an email to him, copying in hr and making your formal request for reasonable adjustments, what they are exactly , why you need them and how it will enable you to perform in your role.

And likely also what medical treatment you are getting for those individual symptoms to mitigate the impact to the company and enable you to function . Then book in a meeting to discuss with him, giving him time to work it internally before hand. You can ask for a representative of hr to attend or a colleague/lawyer/union rep.

this isn’t unreasonable that the company expects you to articulate the request and discuss with your manager as a first step . If he doesn’t support , he needs to articulate why and you can then look to escalate or raise a grievance if you do not agree the response.

good luck, I hope you find the strength to get the ball rolling.