To think that most company menopause policies are an absolute joke?

@PinkRoses1245 Yes miscarriage and fertility is awful but is akin to bereavement and so a maternity policy that covers miscarriage and infant loss of more inline with maternity-esque policy guidelines. For menopause it can be debilitating for many years and is a health issue that can affect women’s performance in the work place. As for fertility my company does have an IVF policy, obviously it has its limitations but it’s something that is controllable unlike menopause where even if medicated you can still be suffering symptoms for years leading to capability dismissal. This is not trying to damp down your efforts, I have been their myself with miscarriage and we tailored our maternity and paternity policies in the business when in quick succession we had 2 colleagues on maternity and one on paternity who suffered infant loss in the same year - it really was bought to the forefront.

Also @SawX @Pleasebeafleabite
the OP's post is a perfect example. What happened to her would not have happened in my company. And is exactly what I was referring to.
Company publishes 'guidance', a laundry list, then tells people to show manager the list. The end. no support apart from a HR call centre, outsourced somewhere.

In my company you would talk to a human, if you didn't want to talk to your 50 year old male manager fine you could discuss this with OH first who would then facilitate the conversation and advise your manager.

The policy is not the problem. The support, and interpretation is the problem. Everyone arguing about a policy has missed the point.

@JenniferAnistonsHair2023 I feel sorry for the undeserved bashing you've got on here. it's hard. But there are decent employers out there.

*them to screw up the them here is the line managers of course.

Did you miss the bit where I mentioned training and resources?

Policies, and education/awareness are two separate things. They may have a degree of overlap in the sense that policy pages might include links to training, ours certainly do.
However the overarching point of a policy is to tell people what they should do. Which, in our case, is 'consult occupational health'. The training and resources are there but everything is generic - managers will be educated on what they need to know by the relevant professionals.

The other reason for emphasizing needing occupational health involvement is because if not done correctly even a 'reasonable adjustment' done in good faith can leave one open to discrimination.

I've looked at a few policies , this for example:
https://www.nhsggc.org.uk/media/264720/menopause-policy-version-2.pdf
'Consider a referral to occupational health' is written as the last point, managers are supposed to handle it first. With things like 'review task allocation' which could clearly lead to a discrimination case if not handled properly, e.g someone moved off a more stressful project. 'Consider a different shift pattern' again in my role this would be impossible without severely impacting the flow of work - again, someone agreeing a 'day work' pattern which then results in them being left out of later, more crucial meetings could argue discrimination.

We do not have 'considering' anything ALL reasonable adjustments MUST go through occupational health to be fair to all parties - employee, line manager and employee. There's no need for a massive list here and handing it off to managers, because we have a strong OH unit and have invested in them to make them accessible and provide the appropriate support with everything clearly documented. We don't expect them to be the experts, attempt to manage things themselves then screw it up.

Nothing against awareness campaigns btw - but again, that is separate from policy.

Btw - if you claim that people 'not knowing what a woman might need' is an issue - what are you going to do when you have an employee with a rare disorder? Or if, like autism, there are a plethora of issues, two autistic individuals can need diametrically opposite things?

The idea here shouldn't be that people NEED to know everything. They need to follow procedure, consult the employee and their experts and listen to them. That's all. 'Knowing what a woman needs' is not the job of a manager because as I stated there are thousands of conditions with thousands of things needed. It's the job of OH - and for the manager to educate themselves as necessary.

simply stating 'treat menopause as a sickness issue'. That's a one-liner. Nothing more needs to be stated. But what many PP seem to be describing is something more, going into detail about time off, workloads etc etc that

Most people who haven't been through it know very little about menopause symptoms or what a woman might need to help her.

You seem to want everybody to accept that menopause can be debilitating and should be treated like other medical issues but without doing any kind of education or awareness raising. It's odd.

At my company so many people have some sort of issue, I for example am neurodiverse and have MH issues among other things.
Managers would go insane if they have to keep up with everything.
What we do have is not only clear sickness procedures but a very strong occupational health team that can not only support managers but employees can also consult with them first, on their own, to get them to liaise with the LM. Managers know when someone raises something they need to engage the team. That's all. We also have training, resources etc but that's for most common issues, including menopause.

The problem happens when companies don't have this support structure. They don't have anybody to refer to, they just jump around putting in policies to deal with the flavour of the month. Because they don't give a shit about being fair. They give a shit about pretending to be.

No dearie - you need to use your brain.
50% of the workforce go through menopause - but not all will have symptoms severe enough to necessitate adjustments. Just like how 50% have periods, but not all have issues with them.
Symptoms lasting for years - like so many other chronic illnesses so actually you're supporting what I said with this statement instead of arguing against it.

Come back when you've done a bit more thinking.

@SawX I'm fine with the menopause policy simply stating 'treat menopause as a sickness issue'. That's a one-liner. Nothing more needs to be stated. But what many PP seem to be describing is something more, going into detail about time off, workloads etc etc that really, once something is a sickness issue comes under the banner of that. The burden of proof should still be upheld via the normal processes.

My issue with period policies is that there is no impetus to treat women. Because periods are 'normal', companies are all 'oh its normal to suffer let's giving women time off' and it never gets solved.

That's bullshit and that's not the outcome we want. We want painful periods to be recognised as a MEDICAL issue, and for treatment to be explored. Giving blanket leave normalises painful periods instead of treating it as a medical issue when absolutely - it IS a medical issue.

Same for menopause with severe symptoms. Why are we expected to put up with it? Why is nobody campaigning for the medical community to take it seriously?

Stop pushing the problem around. Medicalise it and deal with it like any other illnesses. That is the only outcome that will ensure we get the treatment we deserve. The ONLY reason there needs to be a special policy where the burden of medical proof is lower is because the medical community refuses to take us seriously and while that's good in the short-term it's a very damaging long run outcome.

Btw my company's policy is about education, and like you said treating is as an illness - but it's also covered under our private healthcare. We get clinical support. Now, that I fully applaud, they put their money where their mouth is. Excellent!

Mad some of the replies on here. Feels like a race to the bottom, where people are arguing why have a policy as managers should be able to sort out adjustments if an employee has a health issue. But it doesn’t work like that as managers are often biased, weak, poor or just not trained properly to lead staff, and get the best out of people by ensuring they can stay in the workplace despite issues. I mean every female over a certain age in any firms workforce will go through menopause so makes sense to assure employees they will be treated fairly and adjustments can be made and managers have a set of guides on what they should be doing.
The problem is firms rush to put out a policy all in the name of D&I but don’t train managers and I’m not surprised a lot of women don’t feel comfortable talking about personal issues with clueless middle age men.

The help should be provided in the same way as ANY other medical issue. Not a special policy for each one. If we have a menopause policy then we should have a cancer policy, migraine policy, arthritis policy, IBS policy... see where I'm going with this?

You must be able to figure out why menopause is currently being treated differently?

If not, it's because menopause hasn't traditionally been considered an illness or medical condition unlike cancer, migraines, arthritis, etc. It still isn't by a lot of people, hence some of the responses here. Introducing a menopause policy brings awareness that the organisation is treating it as a sickness or medical issue.

That's also why some companies have new period policies.

50% of the workforce will go through the menopause. (Peri) Menopausal symptoms last for years. Use your brain as to why a policy may be needed.

Solidarity OP.

I think your angle here should be that your workplace agreed to a 4 day week, but they're expecting you to ado a full time job in that time. No wonder you're struggling.

@PinkRoses1245 Haven't RTFT but personally I'm not saying that NO allowances should be made for menopause - or by extension any female bodily issues like miscarriage, fertility, periods, etc.

The help should be provided in the same way as ANY other medical issue. Not a special policy for each one. If we have a menopause policy then we should have a cancer policy, migraine policy, arthritis policy, IBS policy... see where I'm going with this?

Painful periods for example - the medical term is dysmenorrhea, there can also be other issues such as PCOS, endometriosis etc all of those are dealt with as medical issues.

Fair enough to raise awareness of menopause so managers don't dismiss women but like everything else the first thing to do should be involving occupational health and GP's following proper process. There should not be instances of 'policy' where managers make adjustments themselves without involving the relevant parties.

@fearfuloffluff every single thing you mentioned also applies to conditions other than menopause. Clothing - autism sensory issues. 'Flooding' - IBS or other conditions that cause a level of incontinence. Those are managed under normal reasonable adjustments. What's so special about menopause?

The only thing that has it's own concessions is pregnancy and that's fair enough because it has a defined end - 9 months. Menopause doesn't necessarily - like many other conditions.

Unoriginal to boot! Keep going 'Olive'!

My organisation are really into wellbeing, our menopause policy seems pretty reasonable. Adjustments are made for the individual. I've seen a few of the adjustment requests and most of them are agreed unless they're unreasonable. One example being, keep the air con on at 14 degrees to combat hot flushes. We couldn't do that because of the effect on everyone else (there's also someone in that office who has a low body temperature so she would become unwell if it was too cold), in that case, she has a personal fan. Other adjustments have been working from home if needed, we've even paid for taxi travel for one person as she was struggling with her journey to work and doesn't drive.

My workplace is generally pretty fair all in all though.

😂Calm down "dear".

Yes, yes you are.

And it is weird (and not thread etiquette) to bring up a poster's other comments that are unconnected to the current thread. Very weird.

Of course you were, dear.

Brilliant 😂

Oh seriously, don't flatter yourself. Can you not read? I said I had just read your comments on that thread. Meaning I was on another thread, nothing to do with you. You think a lot of yourself don't you?

So can menopause be. I've had 3 miscarriages