To think bat surveys are a racket?

It’s really not as simple as that.
They are trained in the field. It’s a specialism

Thank you all - I don't want to cause dissent here and appreciate all your feedback, it really just helps to feel 'heard'. 🙂

I've had an amazing bat lady come out and she found no evidence of a bat, but it isn't as simple as that - she is scoping out the possibilities going forward, and is affiliated with a lovely ecology firm here, so those people are my heroes right now, fingers crossed.

The roofer is so leery of going to prison if he even says the word 'bat' that I wonder if he's had trouble before... 🙄

Anyway, further bulletins as events warrant. If nothing else, I'm meeting some lovely and impressive people through this - nature folk are the best, aren't they?! 😄

Sorry I missed your post.

No authority will grant you “permission” that you don’t need a licence. They cannot. If it is not licensable as in no roost is present (anymore) then there is no permission to give as there is no offence ! This is not NRWs job to ascertain. It is an ecologists.

NRW will grant a licence IF there is the danger of an offence being committed.

You need to speak to an actual professional ecological consultant - That won’t take you weeks and weeks.

Get one out to assess the building and if it could likely still contain a roost or not. They may need to do further survey to ascertain this. If the roost and all possible places for one to be are gone then you may only need a method statement this can be sorted relatively quickly.

Or a very wary of litigation client/employer.

Well unfortunately the law doesn’t take into account circumstances. Yours are really unfortunate and I’m sorry you have to deal with this as wells But it can likely be sorted out reasonably quickly with a competent ecologist if you contact some as suggested. Have any of them got back to you ?

If it’s an obviously old building with a roof not in great shape a good roofer also shouldn’t touch it and should recommending a survey before they do.

But bats can and are found in pretty much any building so it’s hard for a non professional to say unless it’s something obvious like a barn that’s being re roofed.

Well, as I said @OneAmberFinch I am not defending the application of it all.

I mean that's all very well and good, but why does it have to mean that cancer patients have to live without a roof for indefinite periods of time?

It’s not - he said quite cheerfully he’s checking every pylon along the whole line, many many miles. One at a time no doubt, will keep him employed this year I suppose, and add a tenner on to everyone’s bill!
Maybe they are looking for a new pylon climbing Otter sub-species!

Thanks @Longtimelurkerfinallyposts . A lovely bat charity person came yesterday and could find no evidence of a bat. But this isn't enough for the official paperwork that would allow our roofer to continue.

It may very well be that we don't actually need a licence and he IS allowed to work on in these circumstances, but we're finding it impossible to get a response from the authority that would grant that permission, just a 'we'll get back to you in five weeks' message... Even going through the expense of a licence that we may not need - don't care, I would pay just to get it done - it would still require weeks and weeks of observation. Weeks and weeks without a roof, or sleep...

The issue is, they say you have to have this permission, but make it impossible to get. It's Kafkaesque.

any bats present will be coming out of hibernation now.

you could get a preliminary idea of how likely it is that you have some by doing your own mini-study - nowadays you can buy a basic diy kit that lets you make your own bat detector (£22 from Waterstones, or find it online):
https://www.waterstones.com/product/build-your-own-bat-detector-new/5060786540126?sv1=affiliate&sv_campaign_id=624709&awc=3787_1743839820_1635ddadfe24d1a3d78da1df48bca17b&utm_source=624709&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=Twenga+Solutions+CSS
that would at least give you an idea of whether or not an expensive full-scale survey might be needed further down the line...

in the meantime, shop around for other quotes and see if you can find someone you get on with better...

I utterly agree and respect that, @Swiftie1878 - the more research I do, the more I admire these people. It's just that the system at the moment isn't allowing for the fact that I have NO ROOF. 😱

Oh god, yes please, please, @Malbecfan ! I am currently trying to work out how to PM you... 🙏

(Malbec is the only thing keeping me going through this!) 🍷😄

They’re not a racket, no.
These guys have high levels of expertise and their time and knowledge needs to be paid for.

Well exactly, and a ground mount field scale solar farm will have involved a huge range of ecological and archaeological surveys and reports costing tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds…

The UK was for generations a world leader on environmental legislation - clean air, wildlife, food safety etc. I’m not going to argue that it’s worked or that the way it’s regulated is sensible and fair, or that corporations find ways to cheat, but there are two broad principles underpinning the laws -

Well functioning ecosystems are necessary for human well-being and prosperity.

The beneficiary of the proposed development should bear the cost of meeting the standards expected, not the taxpayer.

It can be done. You just need a licence. Although some local authorities do go over the top. I have had to argue with a few myself when they have made bonkers comments or asked for surveys that are not needed.

Plus. Giant solar farm will have had to have had all sorts of wildlife surveys too.

And while bat surveys for the solar farm
development may have been ruled out there are likley other protected species/habitat surveys they had to do. I appreciate the feeling hard done by but domestic planning apps have way more exemptions on all sorts of permissions than commercial

Bats don’t nest in fields though.
They do in barns
Its not comparable

It is so incredibly costly. My brother lives out in the countryside and wants to put up solar panels on an outside building, that was once a cowshed or something like that. I'm not sure exactly what. The local authority won't sign it off without a bat survey, which is going to cost £800! Yet just down the road there is a giant solar farm being constructed. It just seems mental, a few solar panels on a south facing farm building can't be done if it disturbs a bat but bring on thousands of acres of solar farm, less than a mile away. The planning restrictions in this country seem mad sometimes.

Re costing and estimates

Its difficult to estimate because they will have no idea what type of bats are present and in what numbers.
They alsoneed to find out where they are nesting

Specialists sit out through the early hours in the dark watching for movement. Many people will be there surrounding the property watching and counting. They are also looking at flight paths, nesting locations and species etc.

If on day one there’s just one or two it’s easy to count and identify.
If you’ve got 20 or so, more people are needed to carry out the survey

Of note not all bats are the same. Some are far rarer than others and it’s extremely important to be aware of this

Its impossible to estimate costs on an unknown.

“Did you know it takes longer building a bungalow in the twentieth century than it did building a cathedral in the twelfth century?”

It all sounds a total nightmare - sending sympathy to all involved.

@BatSignal do you need the name of a qualified, competent and lovely person to do your bat survey in the Cardiff area? If you do, please PM me. Decades ago I used to teach this chap and we're still in contact on social media.

Your bat signal is right, the handle is a giveaway 😆. I’ve worked in Scotland, England, Wales and in Europe on this sort of thing. There are territorial differences in the methods and processes as well as species and seasonal considerations. For I’ve said here I have assumed people are in England or Wales and general enough to apply to Scotland too

Surveys of bats, badgers, great-crested newts and over 150 trees plus an extensive geosurvey and having to install around 200m of newt fencing by hand cost us a fortune in one of our builds. The joys of planning laws!