To think bat surveys are a racket?

A bit of common sense and understanding is what's needed.

Having a cancer patient live without a roof for months is insane.

We had a listed building that turned out to have live woodworm. We were told to "live with it". Absolutely ridiculous. We went ahead and got an insect bomb done anyway ... quietly.

When the rules are so stupid that people have to live without rooves for months and can't move anything forward for a year, it's not surprising that people turn a blind eye to the presence of creatures that, handled reasonably, they'd far rather be cooperatively protecting.

The issue for you is that no one knew or realised a bat survey would be required for the works and it came to the council asking for one - that’s what caused the delay. And bad timing as you were asked at the end of the survey season - a year long delay is down to not knowing or realising in time and the time of year it did become known. The onus really is on the applicant to check what might be required. The timing is unfortunate but wildlife doesn’t conform to our timescales and these surveys really can only be done at this time.

When submitting a planning application now a lot of councils ask if there is any potential for protected species in the application form - if yes that’s the point to look at getting surveys done. In fact some now only accept an application with the survey data already complete at the time of application.

Assume your council doesn’t do that.

As for outcome - while you only need a tiny bat box had the surveys found say a maternity colony then that would require a lot more - that’s the point - to rule out that sort of issue so you’re lucky really you don’t have one although obviously it feels frustrating to pay for something that technically didn’t find an issue.

So update on this. Emergence surveys completed and over 3 weeks two pipistrelles spotted. Possibly/possibly-not emerging so assumption is they were. This is no surprise. We live in the country: there are bats. Ironically one seen near a roof section we aren't touching so no action required. the other an advised condition to put up a £30 bat box...that's it. Now back with planning Ecology Team so another delay.
Has cost best part of £5k, and more to the point now over 12 months delay on the project. All for a sodding bat box that we would have put up anyway!
I go back to my original point that whilst we are very ecologically and wildlife conscious, unfortunately the incentive of this system is to ensure one destroys any possibility of wildlife habitat BEFORE going to planning. Then put up the bat boxes that would would have done anyway after the work is complete...

I totally get the frustration. Bat surveys can be very expensive and cause big dealys. You've already had plenty of good suggestions here. Here's my two cents as someone who used to work for an ecology company:

You can't skip the inital surveys as that survey is what determines if bats are present, how they use the site, how many there are etc. The initial surveys determine how mitigration could be done and if it can be done at all, so they can't be skipped.

Just make sure you get advice from someone experienced. Plenty of good options on the CIEEM website, or a company that has been around for a long time like arbtech.

You won’t know if there have been local sightings because those reports aren’t available online.

None of this is as vague or random as you are trying to make out.

Rats aren’t a protected species

Just because it's an old barn doesn't mean it's got bats. Where are these local sightings? Just because there are local sightings doesn't mean this building has them. It's all really loose, vague assumptions. Costing op a large financial sum and time.

or yeah there might be ...... rats in China. So?

Every building owner isn’t
Not sure why you’d think they are

It will be because there’s been sightings
or a nearby property has them.
or
It’s empty old barn or similar

The requirement for a survey isn’t random

But based on what? Just an inkling? Why should every building owner be subjected to this extra cost if there's been no sightings, no evidence of drippings, flight of them etc?

@JBOXON
Councils can insist because they are a protected species . I wouldn’t be surprised if someone’s spotted them flying around the area so they already know they are somewhere.

Theres no exact standard period when work can be carried out as it depends on the species which ecologists won’t know unless they have done a survey. The species will also determine mitigation factors, method of working etc. So there’s your logical answer

no they won’t allow you to work around the premiss they are there as they simply can’t without knowing the species

Generally winter months are the hibernation period and summer months breeding and taking care of young.
Some species allow working in the roof after March for a while.
Some have a very limited period of say just April

I'm puzzled that the council have insisted. Can they do that? On what basis? Is there anyway, that you can push back at that because if there's any chance I certainly would. Email them and ask why?

I agree it's just a racket to keep ecologist so bat surveyors in a job!

I know there are protective species and I would never hurt one, but I certainly don't want them living in my house thank you very much!

Just in case it's helpful for the future - it's always worth speaking with your local planning authority ecologist as there's sometimes flexibility on the survey dates. We managed to get a 10-day extension once which saved us a 6-month delay.

I have concluded bat surveys are indeed a racket to keep ecologists in business. We actually had planning permission but decided to make some significant changes really too major to just modify that permission (ironically with less changes to the roof) so re-applied, and suddenly survey required!
PRA showed no sign of bats but just based on it being a big, older house ecologist insists on entry/re-mergence surveys which can't happen until next summer. Asked why on earth we can't just assume the there are roosts and take major precautions and mitigations now: ie supervised roof removal with ecologist present, alternative roosts etc, but no that is reckless apparently! Got to have multiple surveys next summer costing around £5K.
It isn't the money, I genuinely do want to protect the species and biodiversity where we live, it is the delay which is an absolute killer. There is no logical explanation why we can't just work on the theory there ARE bats and work in a responsible way to protect them.
In retrospect should have stuck to the old permission, ripped the roof off, covered in scaffolding and then applied for the new permission. The incentive is to destroy any habitats BEFORE involving the authorities. It's a broken and non-sensical system.

Absolutely @Kandalama

Sarcasm ? ?

Yeah, I get your point. That’s why I just burn that stuff that looks like asbestos tiles in my garden. I haven’t got the for the money for all that survey work either 🤷‍♀️

That's heartbreaking, @Kandalama - bastards 🤬. We used to have some, and a glass of wine was indeed the perfect accompaniment to an evening's bat watching... But we didn't seem to get any the last couple of years, so maybe that's why I didn't think of it. We do have a regular sparrowhawk who treats our feeder like a pick'n'mix, and I sometimes hear an owl scuttling and screeching out there, so maybe that put them off...

@Orangemintcream , I've been told by several people that most roofers would, indeed, have just covered it up - so good point - survey first, then roofer, so you can accommodate in good time.

Agree @BatSignal
and tbh it’s sometimes easy to spot just by taking a glass of wine out into the garden between March and November between dusk and dawn and waiting.

Its not completely 100% , but it’s a nice way to spend the evening

I used to do it until our crappy neighbours took the roof of their barn off during hibernation and killed all the bats.
There must have been 30/40 or so flying about my garden before
He tried to hide the remains of dead ones in his van before the ecologists turned up but was spotted.

Yes he was fined and given a suspended sentence ( wish they’d locked him up though )

Not a single bat here now!

Absolutely - ideally have a survey first rather than the roofer check as they could be putting themselves in hot water by checking IF they find anything.

Although realistically they are unlikely to be prosecuted. As Cloudysky has demonstrated people get away with breaking the law all the time.

New roof can have inbuilt access for bats.

FYI I too have never taken a kickback in my life. I don’t think I’ve ever been offered one either but I have heard of it happening.

Wow.

To hell with the law as well then. Lovely.

To be clear, I love bats and would never harm one - we were planning to put up some bat and nest boxes this year anyway, and we already cater to birds, hedgehogs and frogs... I'm just beefing because of the prospect of it taking a long time. But working on it!

Really, our roofer should have checked before taking all the tiles off - I hadn't even thought of this, but you'd think he'd have had experience...

So hey, at least I will now be able to pass this info on to anyone having roof work done and save them the heartache! The bat check should be Step One!

So the second guy basically said he’d turn a blind eye
if he didn’t look for evidence he wouldn’t find any

Hopefully for your sake the first guy won’t report you.
The fines are hefty and can include jail time.

Of note Ecologists are very unlikely to take back handers.

Genuinely don't know. The first guy said there was evidence of bats and said we would have to use someone he recommended before proceeding. The work done at that stage was fairly minimal so paid him for this time then said we didn't wish to proceed.

The second guy said he was happy to do the work and if he didn't look for evidence of bats he wouldn't find any.

I don't think it takes a conspiracy theorist to believe some roofers might be looking to rip people off with unnecessary bat surveys and taking a kickback from referring them.

Were there bats?

We had a slightly similar issue, we just found a new roofer with less scruples.
I'm all for bats, but I'm not prepared to live in a house without a roof.

The reality is that the roof shouldn’t have been touched in the first place. A lot of old buildings have bats and it sounds like the building is a classic candidate.
OPs or anyones personal situation is irrelevant other than possibly getting things dealt with more speedily if specialists have the time.

Removing the roof first is not the fault of the system, or in fact bats that need protection.
There are no loopholes in avoiding the law.