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Original poster

Advice please - coercive control?

806 replies

rosesarentred3 · 06/07/2023 14:54

I'll start by saying if anyone recognises me from other threads I've created under a different name, please do not put those links on this post as all the info added together would make me easily identifiable to friends and family.

After being in my marriage for 10 years, I can see now that I believe my partner is controlling. I see a therapist who feel strongly that this is happening.

There are too many examples to list but I'll list a few:

Starting random arguments about my family out of nowhere, it literally could be anything. Then DP says to me 'see, look, we're arguing because of them, look at what they're doing to us! We shouldn't have contact with them'. This is about various family members and friends. DP has fallen out with many members of my family so it's awkward to see them.

If I leave a wrapper on the side, DP will be annoyed at me, tell me off, go on and on at me about it. But then does the same herself. If I said something she'd go mad.
The other week I said one night that I was going for a shower abr her response was 'does this kitchen look clean to you? Can you honestly say this is clean? Clean the kitchen before you have a shower'.

Saying what clothes to wear and not wear. I put on some summer pants and DP says 'you really look big in them. Honestly, if you're conscious about your weight I wouldn't wear those, they make you look massive'. I'm a size 10. Not that that matters.

My work is extremely confidential. DP will ask me for confidential information about my work saying 'if you don't tell me then you don't trust me' and will badger me about it and eventually not speak to me for long periods of time because I haven't divulged information.

Tells me regularly I wouldn't survive without her. What would I do without her? How did I manage before? etc.

My confidence is so low. I rarely see my friends. I've lost loads of friends since is being together.
DP told me when we first got together that some of my friends who I saw all the time had been speaking about me behind my back saying awful things and made sure we broke ties with them so I don't see any of them anymore.

Will get really mad at my family and say it's just because she's trying to protect me. Even though there's nothing to protect me from.

We have a child. When I was pregnant she insisted that she take the shared parental leave because I'd had enough time to bond with the baby while I was pregnant so it was now her turn. So I returned to work after having the baby. I cried to dp and said I really wanted to be with the baby and couldn't bear the thought of leaving her. But this just turned into an arguments where DP would cry saying she wanted time off with the baby.
A part of me felt like it was the right thing to do because DP continuously told me I wouldn't manage on my own, that I'd probably forget to do what I needed to do with the baby etc. and I really started to worry that would be true and agreed for her to take the leave instead.

Anyway - what I wonder is, what do I do now? I feel like I can't be in this relationship. I don't feel loved. I haven't ever felt loved in this relationship. Do I just leave? In which case this means selling the house and sorting shared custody etc.

Do I try to spend some time building my confidence first? Making friends? Going out more? Meeting people?
I'm always at home. I work at home. Then when I'm not working, I'm always with DP to the point where I now feel extreme anxiety whenever I go somewhere without DP.

Today I was planning a day with DC. DP then started a big argument with me, slagging of my family again etc.
however, I came out.
Is it completely pathetic that I feel chuffed with myself for coming out? I wasn't as anxious as I usually am. Years ago, I wouldn't have batted an eye at coming out on my own.

It all feels such a mess.

OP posts:
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Original poster
rosesarentred3 · 02/08/2023 03:26

Thank you for your responses. We had a few days where she was being quite nice. I knew it wouldn't last long and anticipated 2-3 days which it was. Now her snide remarks have started again. She's annoyed with me that I didn't tell her my exact location 2 weeks ago when I was out and only told her the area I was in and not the actual Cafe name I was in.
Then she out of nowhere said 'are you gaslighting me? Are you gaslighting me right now? You're gaslighting me aren't you?'

So I just said 'let's not continue this conversation' and left.

We had a family dinner a few days ago but she didn't want my mum here. People kept asking if my mum was coming so I asked her if we could invite my mum. She said no at first. But then said yes she can. After I invited my mum, DW kept telling me how there wasn't really room for her (there absolutely was) and that this meal wasn't really for her. When my mum was here, DP didn't speak to her. Ignored her when she spoke to her. Make snide remarks. Refused the presents she had brought with her for DC.
It is just a reminder how she is with my family.

One present my mum brought, DW said for her to take it back home because we don't want it. My mum was really upset about this.

I have told my mum my plans which I have to say she is glad about. Her first response was 'good because she's not a very nice person'.

I don't think this situation is one where I would flee with the baby if that makes sense.

I imagine i would tell her that I want to separate and file for divorce and that we'd both stay in the house while it is sold. If she makes like unbearable I'll rent somewhere but I wouldn't be able to pay the rent and the mortgage so she would have to contribute.

OP posts:
wibblywobblywoo · 31/07/2023 13:32

Hi OP, firstly hugs as your situation just sounds bloody awful. Well done on having a therapist and for coming on here - sometimes writing it all out really helps you see the reality of things - when you are so busy just dealing with the shit the full impact of what's happening can get lost. It seems you have finally reached 'zero hour' - no more chances, no more emotional manipulation, no more threats, again well done for getting to this point.

So, for the actual physical change of leaving I would reiterate what others have said - don't give your partner any heads up at all, that's just inviting trouble. Do surreptitiously get together all your paperwork, birth certificates for you and DC, financial info, house stuff etc. take it all round to your Mum's for safe keeping along with a basic bag of clothes for you and DC - nothing that will be missed and don't use a suitcase. Then you can either decamp with DC to your Mum's (or other relative if easier) the same day or in the next few days.

Stay strong OP, you have done all the ground work and your head is right now so strike while the iron is hot and make the change you and DC need, and make it now. I wish you all the luck and strength in the world.

Bitterballen · 31/07/2023 11:08

I don't know when the best time is to tell her I want it to end. I have no idea when I'm meant to tell her. When things are good? When things go bad again? I just don't know. I don't know what else I need to prepare first.

Telling her is the last thing you do. I think you need to plan to tell after you have already left. The reason I say this is because, from your posts, it seems there is a part of you that believes telling her is part of the process of leaving and she will assist you to leave. You must know, realistically, that she will never do that and she will do everything to manipulate and force you into staying in the marriage.

So, I suggest you plan to not tell her anything at all until after you are gone (regardless of whether this is actually what you do or not) What would you need to know/do before leaving?

Can you find another solicitor specialising in abuse? Can you speak some more to women's aid, to get advice about how to prepare to leave, and about reporting her to the police?

Have you told any of this to your therapist? Can she help you start to get your thoughts in order?

SunRainStorm · 29/07/2023 12:07

Fathers get 50/50 all the time.

And you carried and gave birth to her!

I'd be shocked if a court gave you less than the average dad.

Listen to the lawyer over womens aid.

Rooting for you OP, you deserve so much better and I feel like you are close to getting it.

ElephantGrey101 · 29/07/2023 09:04

rosesarentred3 · 28/07/2023 13:36

I've spoken with women's aid. They told me they thought DW could get 80% custody due to her having the full parental leave, however I have also spoken with a solicitor who says this is incorrect. And based on all of the information that I gave her, it's more likely that it would be 50/50 as that would be in DC's best interest.

I've felt terrible over the last few days to the point I've become physically really unwell. I've been so stressed. I've felt really guilty as DW has been ok with me for the last few days.

After my call with the solicitor, I do feel stronger and more prepared. They were really helpful. I need to remind myself of how strong I actually am. Because I really am. I've just been told I'm weak for such a long time.

For anyone with experience of this, is there any more advice you would give me at this stage?

It is really good that you have spoken with women’s aid. The solicitor will know more about the legal side of things than they will.

When I left my ex who is very controlling I had a case worker from my local branch of women’s aid and we made a safety plan for how I was going to leave. I found this really helpful.

I would tell someone you trust about what is happening for you. It is scary telling people but it is unlikely to come as a surprise to them.

I would consider reporting to the police as coercive control is a serious crime and there are usually other criminal offences that have been committed as part of it. The more you learn about abuse and control the more you realise has happened to you.

You sound like a strong and caring person. You deserve so much better than this.

Marchbug · 29/07/2023 07:25

@rosrosesarentred3 I am so sorry to see all you are going through. You are being so amazingly strong. Please don't feel like it's your job to get everything sorted and in order to leave, you don't have to. You can go to a place of safety....a GPs surgery, a hospital, the police station or a children's centre and people will help you. This isn't a simple case of leaving a partner, you are a victim of abuse, as is your child. You will be believed, protected and helped. You both deserve this.

RandomMess · 29/07/2023 06:47

You don't tell her anything until you have plans in place and you and your DC are in a refuge with emergency court set up so your DC can stay with you and court ordered arrangements for contact with her.

If you don't do this very carefully she will withhold her as soon as she has first contact.

When is her parental leave over? When could you reduce your hours to be around more then her? You must ensure that your wife does not give up her job.

Is it too late for you to insist on having some shared parental leave or take a block of a few weeks annual leave whilst she settles back into working again?

Tamuchly · 29/07/2023 06:37

rosesarentred3 · 07/07/2023 03:26

@Bitterballen
I also am aware that her having the full parental leave may go against me as it may look like I wasn't all that bothered about DC and that I was just wanting to get back to work. She makes comments that she is the 'main care giver' and 'main parent' or will say 'I have spent a year with her so I know her and her routine better' etc.
it will likely go against me.

And I hate it. I wish I'd been stronger. I wish I'd just had the time off even if it was just a couple months more off. I would cry going to work, knowing I was leaving her and would be away from her for 8 hours at a time.

I'd be expressing milk several times per day and during the night. I felt heartbroken not being around our baby during the day because she would go out and meet with other mums during the day.
I feel like I'll never ever ever forgive myself for it.
I missed out on precious moments. But when I said this to her, she would just get upset saying 'well what do you want me to do? Go back to work and you be off? How would you even manage? You're lucky you had 6 weeks off. Dads only get 2 weeks off. How do you think they feel?'

So I wasn't heard. No matter how upset I was. I felt like I wasn't a part of my babies upbringing in some ways. She would bath baby and I'd say 'can I help?' And she'd say 'no it's fine, I'm doing it' and I'd back away. It's like I didn't know when what to do with my own child.

My mum was here once when it happened and when my partner left the room she asked 'why is she not letting you bath the baby? You're her mum and she's not letting you bath her or pick her up'

And I just said 'mum leave it' because I knew it would start an argument.

When we were out with friends, she would insist she did everything with the baby, change her, feed her and would make jokes that I had an easy life. And friends just go along with it that I've got the easy part in all of this because DP does it all. When really I just feel pushed to the side.

And I don't understand why friends didn't question this. Didn't wonder why I was going to work a month after having a baby. And a haemorrhage where I was in hospital for a week. They didn't seem to think anything of it and most just said 'oh DP will have the hardest job. At least you get to go to work'.
I wish I'd been stronger. I hate myself for it. I really really do. That's why I feel so weak and pathetic. I can't talk to friends about it because I'm so embarrassed. And our joint friends only think that DP is absolutely amazing. DP constantly makes out like she's a saint for putting up with me and people go along with it. She tells me that friends say to her 'god you put up with a lot with her don't you?'

This breaks my heart. My mum did this to me (coercive control) exactly as you’ve described, even the words your partner says. Everyone saying how lucky I was to have her, how much she did for me etc. I didn’t have any confidence, she pushed me back to work when my little one was 4 weeks old then held me over a barrel with childcare and the threat of not being able to live at home unless I worked and she did the childcare (nobody else was acceptable and I didn’t love my son if I thought they were). She got rid of my friends, restricted my social life until it was just work. I suffered post natal depression, lots of other things happened then, to cut a very long story short, one night I snapped. By then I had a home of my own which my son and I lived in but she would frequently tell me he preferred to stay with her. That night she refused to let him come home. I called the police, stood my ground even while she fake cried on various phone calls she made to other people telling them I was “mental” and when the police arrived they did something quite unexpected. They asked to speak to us both separately. The policeman said if we couldn’t come to an agreement then they would have to put my son in emergency foster care for the night. I immediately said he could stay with her if he wasn’t coming with me. She said he had to go to foster care if he wasn’t staying with her. The policeman then went and got my son for me and took us home - I had put my sons needs before mine and she hadn’t. That marked the beginning of our ‘split’ and me getting my life back. I had zero confidence at the beginning, I had deferred all decisions to her and having them back was very scary but I managed to slowly claw my life back. It wasn’t easy, it took years, but it’s the best thing I ever did.

Good luck, don’t wait, you only get one life and it belongs to you - take it back xx

Hellofromtheotherslide · 29/07/2023 03:21

I wouldn't tell her until you have got you and baby somewhere safe as abusive people likely escalate when a partner decides to leave, and especially as she seems possessive over baby and uses her to emotionally abuse you, I could see her refusing to let you take her if you told her prior to getting out. Just plan and go, deal with the fallout once you're at a safe distance where she cannot find or hurt you. I would consider reaching out to Woman's Aid to seek refuge for a bit, as I reckon she will escalate her behaviour since she seems quite extreme under normal circumstances, so it may be worth having people around you who can help you deal with things safely.

nalabae · 29/07/2023 02:00

Please leave. You're not put on earth to live this miserable life. You're not an emotional punching bag x

scoobysnaxx · 28/07/2023 23:53

Can only imagine how you're feel.

Suddenly stuck in this limbo. Completely aware of what's been happening and how awful it is, but no idea how to leave. You just feel even more conflicted right now!

But one step at a time.

The support really is key. Domestic abuse services are soooooo experienced at supporting women to leave situations like this. It's their bread and butter daily. Most of them would have seen all kinds of difficult scenarios and circumstances.

Instilling the bubble of support is key right now. Solicitor. Perhaps the police. Certainly a domestic abuse charity like women's aid or something more local. And hopefully at least one trusted friend or even a colleague. All of these can give you the combination of emotional, practical and legal support needed to get you out and get you out for good and coming out on top before she even has a chance to argue or manipulate back.

As tempting as it must be at times to blow your lid and just tell her, or just leave and run away somewhere, patience is key!

You've lasted this long.. the days are literally on countdown now 💜

Original poster
rosesarentred3 · 28/07/2023 23:10

@scoobysnaxx
Thank you so much. I really hope so. I'm trying to look to a brighter future to keep me going now when it feels so hard.

There are so many awful memories coming up for me that I've been crying each day and really need to try hard to pick myself up.

It really is the same old tired cycle. Each time I think maybe this is a turning point. But it never ever is. At some point she will say or do something that will be mean, nasty or whatever and it'll just carry on from there.

I don't know when the best time is to tell her I want it to end. I have no idea when I'm meant to tell her. When things are good? When things go bad again? I just don't know. I don't know what else I need to prepare first.

OP posts:
scoobysnaxx · 28/07/2023 23:02

Exactly, you really see it now OP.

The cycle.

The cruelty. The silent treatment. The abuse.

Then the apologies. Threats of suicide. Happy times. Happy memories. Promises. Plans. I love you's.

Same old tired cycle.

Not worth the soul destroying abusive treatment. There are people in this world that would gladly give you the world. No one and no relationship is perfect but my God, not this.

Keep going OP. Glad you're making notes. When you read it back I suppose you can't argue with the facts. It must be horrendous to read and see in print. But doing this will keep you focused.

One day you really will look back. No regrets about leaving. Happier. Loved. Content. Fulfilled. Feeling whole and enough on your own with DC. With or without someone new. You will be just bloody fine xxx

Original poster
rosesarentred3 · 28/07/2023 22:48

Thank you all so much for your kindness and words of encouragement. It really does help. Especially when I have doubts.

I have felt so so guilty and worried because I'm 'going behind her back'. I feel very disloyal and i'm sure she would be upset and angry if she knew.

I keep having to remind myself of the ways she has treated me. I make notes every day of the things I remember. I've felt so down remembering them.

I can see she is trying to be nice. Talking about the future. Arranging date nights. These are the things that have kept me trapped and made me doubt myself which is what a few of you have mentioned on here. This is what has previously stopped me from leaving.

OP posts:
SunRainStorm · 28/07/2023 19:45

Well done OP!

You've taken some big steps.

You deserve so much more.

scoobysnaxx · 28/07/2023 18:12

@loveyouradvice ditto 💜💜

loveyouradvice · 28/07/2023 15:35

I just wanted to send you a huge virtual hug.... I remember your previous posts, and have felt utterly heartbroken reading of the life you are living.

Never forget you are strong and valuable and that you are doing this both for yourself and for your daughter: she deserves to know what healthy relationships are and to not see her own mother being abused, and to have that wonderful relationship with you that becomes possible once you feel liberated again.

You will come through this and have taken the first steps.

And if you doubt how lovable you are, reread the beautiful words of your previous partner - how lovable and easy to live with you are and how she should know having lived with you for five years.... I hope you've kept these somewhere you can look at them frequently.

Sending you much love - and also admiration for what you are doing: it is so very tough for you, and you are being so strong.

scoobysnaxx · 28/07/2023 15:13

Well done OP.

I know that must've been hard to do and maybe doubted yourself.

Remind yourself daily how strong you are and how much you are doing every bit the right thing.

Someone else made a great point - dads often get 50/50 with paternity leave so no reason why you should.

This is why you playing the long game, getting your ducks in a row is IMPERATIVE.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

It will absolutely give you the upper hand.

Know your rights and keep going.

And remind yourself when she's being nice that it's all part of the wider manipulation cycle that's kept you trapped there x

ElephantGrey101 · 28/07/2023 14:48

You do have the right to leave with your child even though she is named on the birth certificate. You need to be careful because she can go to court for shared custody but if you go into a woman’s refuge you do not need to tell her where you are. Refuge addresses are secret by law.

Bitterballen · 28/07/2023 14:44

That is an amazing step OP, to have spoken to both WA and a solicitor!
We're you given any advice about how to evidence the coercive control? Because that's a key factor driving the care split of DC. You need some quality advice here from a solicitor with experience of abuse.

Obviously you feel stressed - it's a highly stressful situation - so that's not a negative thing, it's not evidence of you being weak. It's the effect of her abuse on you, and once you begin to extract yourself, it will lessen. Keep going!

ElephantGrey101 · 28/07/2023 14:41

rosesarentred3 · 20/07/2023 15:50

@Bitterballen
I have tried several times. I was number 14. But the wait time is so long. After 20 minutes, I am only 1 closer to being answered.
I tried doing the online chat several times but it said no one was available to talk because they're too busy.
So I sent an email a few days ago for a call back but I haven't had one yet.

My love. I am so sorry you are going through this. I never managed to get through to women’s aid. It was easier to speak to my local domestic abuse service. You can find their number on the council website. You can also go to your local pharmacy and ask for ani. They can take you into a private room and arrange a call for help.

Gather all the evidence you can and go to the police. She could go to jail for what she has done to you. From what you have written I think you need her to be arrested so you can safely leave with your child. Social services intervention would be beneficial to you and your child because even though she loves your baby she is also emotionally abusing them.

CecilyP · 28/07/2023 13:50

I don’t know much about the legalities but if dads who take a weeks paternity leave can get 50/50, I don’t see why you shouldn’t.

Original poster
rosesarentred3 · 28/07/2023 13:36

I've spoken with women's aid. They told me they thought DW could get 80% custody due to her having the full parental leave, however I have also spoken with a solicitor who says this is incorrect. And based on all of the information that I gave her, it's more likely that it would be 50/50 as that would be in DC's best interest.

I've felt terrible over the last few days to the point I've become physically really unwell. I've been so stressed. I've felt really guilty as DW has been ok with me for the last few days.

After my call with the solicitor, I do feel stronger and more prepared. They were really helpful. I need to remind myself of how strong I actually am. Because I really am. I've just been told I'm weak for such a long time.

For anyone with experience of this, is there any more advice you would give me at this stage?

OP posts:
Bitterballen · 21/07/2023 14:16

Hi OP
Can you try the National Domestic Abuse helpline too maybe? https://www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/en/How-can-we-support-you

Anyway, today she announced she's going out for a meal with the person and off she went
Frankly, I'd use this as an opportunity to start getting your ducks in a row while she's out.
Solicitors, paperwork, squirrelling away important photos/keepsakes, anything that will be difficult when she's around.

I'm sure if you make your upset clear when she comes back you might find she does it again and provides you with some more alone time...

Original poster
rosesarentred3 · 21/07/2023 13:55

A while ago, I thought DP was cheating as there were a few indicators of it. When I asked her she went mad and was so angry and upset. She didn't speak to me for a few days. I felt so so guilty for accusing her. I felt absolutely dreadful about it.
I don't think she was cheating, but I think maybe she liked the attention from this person - I'm not sure.

Anyway, today she announced she's going out for a meal with the person and off she went. I don't know if she wanted a reaction from me or something as it seemed quite sudden. Or if she's showing that we are doing things separately now or something.

OP posts: