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Would you rather stay in U.K. or aus

265 replies

whytesnow · 02/01/2023 23:40

And what's your reasons? Just had a crazy idea to move over as I don't have any commitments here and life is getting boring for me here

OP posts:
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5
echt · 04/01/2023 07:52

Papers, not spares.

echt · 04/01/2023 07:51

At school, sports is the top. If you're smart but not sporty you'll have a tough time as academia is not valued at many places. It's not cool to be smart in a lot of schools (not all) unlike here

I taught for the last 16 years, my DD educated here and I know many teachers and parents outside my school.

Aussie education is not bad at all, ceratinly no worse than the UK, and their studying of English to 18, and the lack of GCSE equivalent makes for a better system over all.

Sports is not top. Stupidly overvalued, especially AFL and in the press, but schools not so much. I never saw "academia" (sic) disparaged, indeed I saw already, day to day appreciate of others' talents openly expressed in a way I never saw in 25+ years in the UK.

There's a lot of "China is evil" in the press. Ask Chinese Australians if it's a racist place. The casual racism is pervasive in society and something we really notice when back
If you mean the views of certain politicians, then yes, though not expressed in spares as coarsely as you suggest. I found no racism at all expressed by people I taught with, though don't doubt it exists and have found it expressed by well-educated people who ought to know better.

It was very like the UK, once outside the bubble of London I lived and worked there for 25+ years) racist and sexist attitudes were far more openly expressed.

marvellousmaple · 04/01/2023 07:38

FatCatSkinnyRat · 03/01/2023 18:08

DH and I are both dual nationals and have lived 10+ years in both during our marriage. Currently in UK and no desire to return to Aus.

Be aware that Aus education system is not great when compared to some others. Both our kids were substantially behind when we moved to Asia and into the international schools. Some European international schools flatly refused to take kids from the Aus education system as there's no way they'd catch up.

At school, sports is the top. If you're smart but not sporty you'll have a tough time as academia is not valued at many places. It's not cool to be smart in a lot of schools (not all) unlike here.

There's a lot of "China is evil" in the press. Ask Chinese Australians if it's a racist place. The casual racism is pervasive in society and something we really notice when back.

Plus you'll age really quickly ha ha. I seriously look 15 years younger than my school friends after almost 20 years living outside Aus in various stints.

I don't believe a word of this ( except for the aging bit) Have you seen James Ruse High? The top High School - completely free - in NSW. There isn't a "white" Australian in the school. So badly treated hey?
If AUstralia is so racist to Chinese people why are they so keen to come here in their thousands?
Why not stay home where all is wonderful?

sicklycolleague · 04/01/2023 07:32

Mulling this over myself tbh. Partner is early 30s and I’m late 20s. Would like kids soon (me sooner I think). I’m from New Zealand but grew up in Oz, been in the UK a decade, and have just spent a fortnight in NZ. Partner is from an EU country but grew up in UK. After a fortnight of friendly people and a more chilled lifestyle we are left wondering what’s here for us. We’ve just bought in London but theoretically could rent out if needed. Partner loves NZ and hasn’t been to Oz (+hates spiders but same and I grew up in QLD, it never seemed a huge issue). He keeps talking about spending time in NZ in the next few years. I’m wondering if Australia is a better option — I've family in Melbourne and Perth now, as well as friends in Brisbane and Sydney. Might be the balance of Down Under lifestyle + career + better public services and having kids much nearer to my parents. We shall see, I guess

marvellousmaple · 04/01/2023 07:17

That's what annoyed me about a recent post about their relative living in "the Far East". I seriously though that kind of Eurocentric claptrap was long gone but apparently not.
Far from where is the question.

ShippingNews · 04/01/2023 06:58

Australia is very cut off from the rest of the world

That might apply if you think "the rest of the world" is Europe. For any person in Oz, there is plenty of world nearby , like all the Asian countries and the Pacific Islands. I assure you that nobody in Oz thinks they are cut off from anywhere.

ShippingNews · 04/01/2023 06:53

Endofmytetherfinally · 04/01/2023 06:22

Sorry but flights from Sydney to Melbourne are not 40 quid particula4ly post covid. You're lucky to get a return for 150 off peak and can easily be 300. Sydney to Perth is 1k plus. Pounds.

Hmm just checked on Webjet, Sydney to Perth in a normal week is about A$450 ( about £ 250) Don't know where you get Sydney to Perth 1k plus

Sydney to Melbourne about $250 (£ 140).

marvellousmaple · 04/01/2023 06:28

Murdoch1949 · 03/01/2023 02:48

If you can tolerate a society more racist, sexist & homophobic than the UK, then go to Australia.

For what seems like the 20th time - where are you getting this information from? Sigh. It's the same as - No spiders don't kill you .
Yes we are one of if not the most ethnically diverse country in the world, with a healthy vibrant democracy. Gay marriage is legal here - just the same as the UK. I have no idea why you are calling us sexist? Have you ever been here?
Loving your user name btw. lol
I'm getting tired of defending my country .

Endofmytetherfinally · 04/01/2023 06:22

Sorry but flights from Sydney to Melbourne are not 40 quid particula4ly post covid. You're lucky to get a return for 150 off peak and can easily be 300. Sydney to Perth is 1k plus. Pounds.

dolor · 04/01/2023 05:39

I'm dying to move to Scotland.

StClare101 · 04/01/2023 05:23

Flannan · 04/01/2023 03:51

Australia, in a heartbeat. Me and DH have lived there and travelled on holiday.

The UK will tank for decades now as a result of Brexit and the 12 years of Tory rule.

I fucking HATE spiders, but there's no Huntsman as vicious as a Tory government.

Excellent last point!

And I’ve lived in Australia most of my life and have never seen a huntsman :-)

Pearsandclocks · 04/01/2023 05:22

I have friends who emigrated 12 years ago. They absolutely love it. The outdoor lifestyle, the weather and the general space, bigger roads etc. they originally moved to NZ but after a few trips to Australia decided to go there. They were home for 5 weeks recently for Xmas and can’t wait to get back. Both have lost their parents in the last few years and have said this will probably be their last trip to the uk.

Flannan · 04/01/2023 03:51

Australia, in a heartbeat. Me and DH have lived there and travelled on holiday.

The UK will tank for decades now as a result of Brexit and the 12 years of Tory rule.

I fucking HATE spiders, but there's no Huntsman as vicious as a Tory government.

Palmface · 04/01/2023 03:11

I'm Australian but lived in UK for 15 years. Dh and I moved back to Oz 5 years ago and it was a great decision. Quality of life is much better than UK, dh is British and would never move back. He gets paid a lot more here for what he does (finance) which is a bonus.

People who say there are no other countries nearby - there's the whole of the pacific? And south East Asia? Nz too. And there's a lot of variety in the landscape so not all the same here. Granted it's a big country but we fly between cities if needed.

Liorae · 04/01/2023 02:56

mackthepony · 03/01/2023 01:25

Not sure about the hate for Australia is, as a PP said?

I spent a year there eon a working holiday visa that the op is looking into and could not have enjoyed it more.

Do it op, apply and go.

As for this comment :

Horrible weather, horrible accents, horrible animals, horrible lifestyle, horrible everything

^

Really?? Bit unnecessary

But one way of justifying being afraid to leave your zenophobic comfort zone.

Hop27 · 04/01/2023 02:38

Someone once told me if your good at something you'll be successful in Australia.
9 years later I agree with him.
I had a great lifestyle in the UK, moved to
Australia for love and haven't looked back. DH and I are paid well, but we work hard for it, like most people. We own our home, we built it and were helped to do so by government assistance. But again renting and paying a mortgage whilst we did so was tough.
It's 33 deg today, I'm watching 4OD (uk TV is better) in my garden in the shade, with my fan on. DH and DSS have gone for a kick about, no doubt they will be straight into the pool when they get back. Yesterday was spent at the beach, but we went for a beer on the way home and a pint and a shandy was $37.... £20, in a small country pub.
Like everywhere - life is still hard / stressful, but there are lots of opportunities here.
I really do think you can have a really nice lifestyle here, but it isn't handed to you with your WHV.
I'd be so curious to understand how many posters, the ones about spiders, sharks, education and lack of home ownership have actually spent time here.

ladyjadie · 04/01/2023 02:29

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/01/2023 01:31

Onya ladyjadie! I feel the same. I knew as soon as I got here I had finally found my place. Looking at the blue skies, walking on my local beach, having a beer by the pool, every day I am glad I made the leap to move here too.

Yes! Thank you for reading my essay hahaha I just so know how incredibly daunting it seems to leave everything you’ve known, but it’s just such an indescribable feeling to even know and you just want others to even get the chance to feel that too! And if they don’t that’s ok too but they’re never sorry they tried it!
Also second/third the GPS and hospital, I’ve almost always managed to get a same or next day appt with a dr and never waited more than 3/4 hours in A&E and always free. Hell I’ve had headaches/chronic migraines since I was 10 and despite a few diff tries of various meds in the UK and a referral to a headache clinic (and this is NOT a dig at our woefully underpaid and overworked NHS heroes) but the first Dr I saw here, heard my symptoms (was just there to get a script for codeine as assumed it was just ‘one of those things’, sent me off to the nearest scanning centre for a CAT scan the next day just to rule out any more malignant possibilities (I lose motor function etc when really bad) of which I had to pay a portion upfront, which was then rebated! Coming for a holiday or even a couple months doesn’t really let you even begin to wrap your head around how much it is so good! And they swear (to a point haha) on TV and radio, was a bit shocked to hear “ah look yeah that was a bit shitty ay” after being used to the relatively reserved mainstream media over the pond hahaha. And the adverts! “Did someone say KFC?” “Yeah, BUCKET why not”. It’s the little things isn’t it Grin
Another thing, yes renting is expensive in Sydney but my partner is a carpenter and I’ve not been able to work for the last year and we live a very happy life in our small 1-bed apartment (feels like a palace after hostel living for 2 years!) on just his wage, 10 minute drive from the beach. And our mates have just got a mortgage on a house near us and she’s an engineering assistant and he’s a labourer so it’s pricey yes but not completely out of this world impossible, and cheaper the further inland you go!
I can see myself settling in QL on one of those houses on stilts, rocking with a tinnie in me hand.
Oh and there’s no FOSTERS HERE! Was a treat to see their faces seeing the adverts we get shown in UK “what, for that piss?!” Grin And yes, they were laughing about it. Cos contrary to posters above, they’re more than happy to take a good natured ribbing and dish it right back! Might get aggy if you’re being a prick too though, as humans can tend to do. You can even call them a cunt and no pearls will be clutched! In fact most of the time it’s an endearment.. it’s the “Ah yeah alright. mate.” you’ve gotta watch out for!
I’ll even attach my fave stubby holder from up top, brought from a souvenir shop where (gasp-) children might see it!

Would you rather stay in U.K. or aus
magicthree · 04/01/2023 02:17

I'm the one who mentioned education. I was born there, educated there, and lived there for the first 23 years of my life, so I expect that qualifies me to comment.

I'm not in the UK or Australia, but having been on MN for a couple of years and having read hundreds of posts I would't be bragging about the UK education system if I were you! It seems to have failed a lot of people.

Theoldwoman · 04/01/2023 01:46

KnickerlessParsons · 03/01/2023 00:12

U.K. all the way. Aus is too far from anywhere else - even NZ is a four hour plane ride - and everywhere in Aus is too far from everywhere else in Aus, yet everywhere looks exactly the same.
The TV is crap. There are sharks in the sea. The food isn't good. Amazon service is poor. It's v hot in the summer. They aren't very nice to the indigenous people.

Ha ha!

This made me laugh, very far from the actual truth!

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/01/2023 01:31

Onya ladyjadie! I feel the same. I knew as soon as I got here I had finally found my place. Looking at the blue skies, walking on my local beach, having a beer by the pool, every day I am glad I made the leap to move here too.

DetMcNulty · 04/01/2023 01:30

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/01/2023 00:53

I am in Perth and this summer has been slow to start, its only really warmed up in the last few weeks. Last summer was a hot one, I loved it! If you enjoy the sunshine, and you'd be a fool to move here if you don't, its paradise! Hot days (over 35 IMO) are easy to cope with when you have aircon and a pool, and the Freo doctor helps most days too.

One other thing, 30 degrees here does not feel the same as 30 degrees in the UK. Its a lot more bearable as humidity here is low. Even my mum who usually can't cope if its over 25 in the UK was perfectly happy at 32 degrees here.

Also the person who said hardly anyone owns a house is just plain wrong. Its pretty easy to buy a house here, unless you are somewhere very spendy like Sydney and Melbourne. Last year two sets of friends built new houses using a government incentive programme called Keystart, which means you only need a 2 % deposit. They also got government incentives of over $50k cash. They now have beautiful 4 bedroomed houses, and have paid a lump sum off their mortgages. Not bad for people on a so-called 'low income' (under $150k joint income approx).

Anyway, lots of misconceptions and incorrect info on this thread, like every other thread about Australia. It's not prefect but I love it!

I'm Perth too, and totally agree, love the hot weather, if anything I find winter drags on a bit too long here, would love summer to get going a bit earlier. And yep, the dry heat is so much easier to cope with than humidity, I can remember going from 35 in Perth to Bali, and thinking it must be in the 40's in Bali as I found it so difficult, only to realise it was only 28. The Freo doctor makes a massive difference too, even on the hottest 40+ days I can still chill at the beach.

I've been more than happy with education too, and I've not sent mine to private, my eldest is in final year of Atar and some of the maths he's been doing is topics my partner only started at uni for part of his physics degree. There are more options for non academic kids too.

And just within WA there are so many different options, I love the wineries down south, Margaret river and Denmark in particular, but Karijini is great for hiking, Exmouth for snorkelling, and the Kimberleys are almost other worldy, so beautiful.

ladyjadie · 04/01/2023 01:21

i’ll start with the cons

-it’s a long old slog home (but I love flying so don’t mind too much) and I do miss my fam & friends a lot sure. But I made loads of new ones here too and now with messenger,FaceTime etc it’s not like you’re just waiting weeks for snail mail standing or having to tactically co-ordinate a ring on the pay phone.

-they only seemed to have got potato smilies and canned spaghetti shapes (spag-o-saurus for the 0 interested ha) in the last couple of years. We do say (in jest) that in some aspects like that Aus seems to be about 20 years behind the uk. Oh and don’t be fooled by the creamY Heinz tomato soup. It’s NOTHING LIKE cream OF tomato soup!! There’s also UK/Irish import shops that stock that, and many of my faves like chilli heatwave Doritos, Quavers etc.
I do really hanker a ‘proper Englishh’ Chinese takeaway tho, nothing here’s quite touched that. Too many authentic and extensive other cuisines. My waistline doesn’t complain tho!

-Yes it can get bloody hot. Luckily there are things such as beaches, pools, and also malls, and other such civilised places with air con for those days.
You acclimatise or ya sweat. shrug.
Winter can get cold too (location depending) but nothing a heater, leccy blanket and an Oodie can’t fix. But fuck, even on cold days the skies are blue and in the sun i’ve found myself in a t-shirt in mid-August. And blue skies & sunshine from 7am- 7pm year round rather than shivering yer arse off 80% of the time while it gets dark before 5pm? I know which puts me personally in a better mood. (This also differs slightly location depending.)

-are there racists, snobs, yobs and general arses? Yes there are. Best sticking to the UK or Americ.. oh wait..
Humans can be dicks and they exist literally everywhere. I went to a pub on halloween in Devon couple years back and there were two white men in literal brown face paint dressed as Tupac and Biggie so… Hmm. I’d say similar about the majority of politicians too but yeahhh..
There’s also efforts to convey much respect and acknowledgement for the First Nations people all over tv, radio and the majority of humans really, at least in the circles i keep, and a lot of calling out of nasty racist shite too. Thankfully this seems to be a growing trend in general.

-T’internet wifi is a little bit crapper/slower than the UK. Can’t download a whole series on the Arr-me-hearty Bay in 10 minutes, more like a solid 8 hours. Not that I do that anyway ahem. Luckily the phone data plans and 5G are fast and pretty reliable. Oh and they say data funny, like dahtah Grin

-Stuff can be muuuch further away because, well, Australia is B I G! My bestie lives in Melbourne which is a 12 hour drive. But the flight Syd-Mel takes about an hour, and costs ~40 quid, which isn’t far off what my south coast mates pay to get to London on the train nowadays! Plus I have a bed to stay in her state (and others) and going to each state is a total new vibe so feels like a real holiday/adventure every time. To me anyways.

-Yes there are snakes, sharks, crocs and LARGE spiders. But personally I’ve lived in Darwin, Queensland (Tully farmwork woo —not and Sydney and I’ve seen 2 brown snakes (one dead, one from a car), never been bitten by a spider and the biggest I’ve seen is a Huntsman the span of my palm, whom I’ve [un]lovingly named Michael Myers due to the fact that the twice I have er.. gracefully and unscreaminly released him into the bushes below, he has returned to scare me shitless twice. Not as deadly though. I’ve also swum in beaches and lakes all over and never seen a shark or been got by a croc, as ill-advised as some of those escapades may have been. Yes there are relatively rare attacks, usually wayy further out than most people would be having a swim from the main beaches, and certainly not like Jaws, nor be an absolute reason to just write the entire country off! They also have sooo many amazing animals like Platypus (otter shagged a duck) Echidnas (porcupine shagged a platypus) and koalas and Roos and many more that still bring me joy to see them! Even seeing flocks of beautiful lorikeets, loud bastard --Cockatoos, Galahs, congregating in trees & flying free, not just in sad little cages. Can’t beat that feeling of joy.

Whew ok, now the pros!

I fear i may have to keep it brief at the risk of coming across biased, but in a nutshell, for me personally moving here, my life has changed exponentially for the better. Barring the dickheads everywhere caveat above, the people are just generally friendlier, nicer, happier. I’m still delighted when I hear a “G’day”, “Holy Dooley!”, so many little things bring me so much joy, I’ve experienced the backpacker lifestyle and been settled in one place for 4 years now and adored both lives, for 30 years I lived in the UK and honestly, I never knew there was a dull, gnawing unhappiness, just something that was missing, something just a bit.. not great. When I got here, it felt like a weight had lifted from my bloody SOUL. Maybe I’m just easily pleased, idk, but for me personally my mental health improved from day one. Was it damn scary to whittle down all my “stuff” into one backpack? Yep i didn’t even pack til the night before. Did I have to be basically shoved onto the plane? Kinda, haha. But I did it, with my mum counteracting my “but but what IFFF” with “Come on Jadie. If you hate it you just get a plane back, it’s not the bloody Hotel California!”
Hell my mates had a “how long will she last” game, shortest guess was two weeks, longest 6 months. I cried with happiness when I just got my Permanent Residency visa last month, and will have been here 6 years in Feb (suck it, Claire Wink) And yeah there have been some shit times, but hell even those shit times i still felt every day so so thankful that I was IN AUSTRALIAA!!” Even the lowest times didn’t feel as low as if I’d still been home. I’ve never a single day regretted it. And I’ve met so many people herd, some who loved it, some who were happy to just do the year or 2, a couple who were on the fence but decided to at least stick out the 3 month one. But I’ve never met a single one who’d said they wish they’d never come here. SO many had to go back after their WH visa, and were beyond gutted, but had no choice, i was and am indescribably lucky and grateful every day that I did get to stay.
Yeah some stuff is expensive, but mostly just seems expensive because it took me a good year to stop thinking in “oh god that’s 60 bucks! That’s THIRTY EIGHT pounds!1!!” And just start thinking in terms of how much relative to my earnings. Like shit, i worked in a tiny cafe with Bondi Beach right out the window, and I was getting paid about equivalent of £15 an hour, PLUS tips, where I’d been working the same hours, same job (busier even, and a fraction of the tips) for about £6.50 an hour back home.
I also can admit I didn’t have kids or a house to sell etc but leaving lifelong friends, a long term (toxic but still) relationship, my family, it was the biggest decision I’d made after being such a timid person with zero self-faith, fearful of what I was leaving behind and if everything would go wrong, everyone would forget me.. but yep. The best choice i ever made,

I could go on but i think I’ve made my own point, based on my own mileage of course, but I can and do tell every single person I ever meet who even expresses a “what if…?” To just DO it! The ones that did, didn’t regret it. The ones who didn’t, sure they’ve lived their lives and seem mostly fine, had kids now, settled down ok but they still say “i kinda wish I’d tried it before.. just to see” it’s always worth a go, even if it’s another story to tell at some point that was “Nah, wasn’t for me

Sorry everyone the TL;DR- Go for it! Best things in life can seem the scariest!

Aussies and fellow happy expats here I’ll just wave and probably go name change now after getting off my soap box!

i just love it so much, truly enriched my life and want others to experience the chance of it if they can!

runs and name changes

Aussiegirl123456 · 04/01/2023 00:57

YellowMonday · 04/01/2023 00:42

"2 hours on a plane from Australia - a town/city exactly the same as the one you just left, desert with nothing for hundreds of miles around, or....the sea."

I saw this comment and it really annoyed me. It really isn't true, Australia is the size of Europe and there are significant differences across the states. Even within the states! It's not the same types of differences within European countries but this is an ignorant comment or bad travel experience. Just a few examples below....

I live in Melbourne, the sporting capital. Incredible sports like Aus Open and AFL, best coffee in the world, fantastic theatre scene. An hour drive away is the Yarra Valley with fantastic vineyards, food, wines, and B&Bs. 90 minutes away is Daylesford, a stunning country town with 5* restaurants, spas, and fab market.

I grew up in Tasmania which has the best air, best hiking, stunning scenery, beautiful main city. Mona gives a world class art gallery, and bi-annual arts festivals, which mainly sell out to international visitors! Hobart in particular is becoming very cool with the food, arts and drinks scene.

Queensland has the best beaches and active lifestyle. Still a bit bogan, but covid has seen a migration of people from VIC and NSW which is changing the demographics significantly. Yes we have sharks but you are much more likely to be killed on the roads in the UK. Or win the lotto!

Northern Territory is stunning. Here you can really explore our Indigenous history, with Uluru life changing. Darwin is one of the funniest experiences you will have. The Kimberly's, well there is nothing like it in the world. One of my best experiences was a helicopter tours, including dropping in on waterholes with no one around.

Queensland, bogan pah! I’d be offended if you weren’t correct. 😂

(I am a Qld bogan and proud)!

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/01/2023 00:53

I am in Perth and this summer has been slow to start, its only really warmed up in the last few weeks. Last summer was a hot one, I loved it! If you enjoy the sunshine, and you'd be a fool to move here if you don't, its paradise! Hot days (over 35 IMO) are easy to cope with when you have aircon and a pool, and the Freo doctor helps most days too.

One other thing, 30 degrees here does not feel the same as 30 degrees in the UK. Its a lot more bearable as humidity here is low. Even my mum who usually can't cope if its over 25 in the UK was perfectly happy at 32 degrees here.

Also the person who said hardly anyone owns a house is just plain wrong. Its pretty easy to buy a house here, unless you are somewhere very spendy like Sydney and Melbourne. Last year two sets of friends built new houses using a government incentive programme called Keystart, which means you only need a 2 % deposit. They also got government incentives of over $50k cash. They now have beautiful 4 bedroomed houses, and have paid a lump sum off their mortgages. Not bad for people on a so-called 'low income' (under $150k joint income approx).

Anyway, lots of misconceptions and incorrect info on this thread, like every other thread about Australia. It's not prefect but I love it!

YellowMonday · 04/01/2023 00:42

"2 hours on a plane from Australia - a town/city exactly the same as the one you just left, desert with nothing for hundreds of miles around, or....the sea."

I saw this comment and it really annoyed me. It really isn't true, Australia is the size of Europe and there are significant differences across the states. Even within the states! It's not the same types of differences within European countries but this is an ignorant comment or bad travel experience. Just a few examples below....

I live in Melbourne, the sporting capital. Incredible sports like Aus Open and AFL, best coffee in the world, fantastic theatre scene. An hour drive away is the Yarra Valley with fantastic vineyards, food, wines, and B&Bs. 90 minutes away is Daylesford, a stunning country town with 5* restaurants, spas, and fab market.

I grew up in Tasmania which has the best air, best hiking, stunning scenery, beautiful main city. Mona gives a world class art gallery, and bi-annual arts festivals, which mainly sell out to international visitors! Hobart in particular is becoming very cool with the food, arts and drinks scene.

Queensland has the best beaches and active lifestyle. Still a bit bogan, but covid has seen a migration of people from VIC and NSW which is changing the demographics significantly. Yes we have sharks but you are much more likely to be killed on the roads in the UK. Or win the lotto!

Northern Territory is stunning. Here you can really explore our Indigenous history, with Uluru life changing. Darwin is one of the funniest experiences you will have. The Kimberly's, well there is nothing like it in the world. One of my best experiences was a helicopter tours, including dropping in on waterholes with no one around.