the "don't have kids if u can't afford them" mentality...

OP, have you got more children than you can afford? Are you reliant on the state to support your family? It’s strange to think people should bring children into the world without stable means to support them. Yes, circumstances change but in general it’s easier to look after a smaller family for many reasons.

Lol humans are the only animals that pathologise the biological urge to reproduce.

we could comfortably have a society where this wouldn’t even be a question but the tories keep their capitalist buddies drowning in money and tell us poverty is our fault because we choose to have children. Even though the circumstances for most of humanity has been instability and large families and societies have been seen as stabilising structures. Now big families are seen as a drain and perpetuating poverty.

it’s government policy that’s perpetuating poverty. But you all would rather feel smug on mumsnet than write to your mp.

you couldn’t make it up.

Instead of resenting people who need their wages topped-up by the government in order to afford having a couple of kids

Interesting view point.

How about instead, people were paid enough not to need benefits, who would’ve thought that a full time employees should take in benefits because their employer refuses to pay a living wage, and worse the very care you seem to be procreating for is one of the worse paid jobs in society?

How about raising sell rounded educated individuals who will earn a living wage to support themselves and their own families without having to take benefits?

It’s cruel and selfish to inflict poverty on children. They have poorer opportunities and outcomes, it stays with them their whole lives.

Much more consideration should be put into actually planning a family. We have an abundance of contraceptive options so there’s really no excuse of ‘accidental’ pregnancies anymore.

And the argument about helping to support an ageing population - if we start having LESS children now there will be LESS old people in future generations.

Imagine how much of the NHS resources would be freed up!

@MermaidCheeks "Its obviously multi-faceted - Care and nursing are outrageously low-paid for such hard work. lack of appropriate funding, not enough nhs staff to supervise trainees, vicious cycle of pressured,stressed-out staff working on unsafe-hospital wards leaving the profession etc etc. Not to mention the ageing population placing an ever-increasing burden and the fact that birth rate hasa halved since 1960."

You don't seem to be saying that care work is the kind of job you would want your children to have, you don't seem to see it as a good option. So why would you be advocating for people to have children they can't afford with the goal of those children taking on the jobs that you criticise?

It’s an huge over simplification, but there’s a grain of truth in that most people can only support a smaller family, tbh. I had an image of myself with four children and a dog, but after we had two children, it was clear that our family’s standard of living would drop drastically if we had more. We didn’t have any family support for childcare, for example, so that alone ate up a huge amount of money.

So we stopped at two and we did eventually adopt our dog. 😁

I agree. I am the third born of four and my parents could not afford four children. I have always thought they should have stopped at two, even though that would mean my not existing. I had a miserable childhood growing up in poverty. Not having children if you can’t afford them seems entirely sensible.

I do think having 4+ kids when you've only ever been receiving government funds to finance you is taking the piss though 🤷🏼‍♀️

Agree with this.

Birth rates can't keep going up though - the planet isn't big enough

We need better ways to manage / and immigration of climate refugees doesn't could be part of a good solution

maybe embrace those who are making sacrifices to have kids at all, especially in the face of the overwhelming decrease in value that society and successive governments have placed on the role of raising children.

Yes, because everyone has kids for completely altruistic reasons? People have kids because they want them, it is a purely selfish motive

The working childless people have paid more than their fair share into the pension pot throughout their lives.

Morally, perhaps. But this argument unravels because, although they may have paid in, it was all paid out rather than being kept in the pot for them to have recourse to later. At the point at which the pot is empty, standing around saying 'I paid in so I should get X, Y and Z!' isn't going to help. It's essentially a massive Ponzi scheme. If you don't have sufficient new 'investors' (in the form of taxpayers), the older ones won't be paid out.

*argument.

It is a stupid thing to say, particularly since it's usually aimed at those who already have children. What do they expect parents to do? Rehome them?😆

There certainly needs to be.

This is an extremely stupid arguement.

For me it is not so much, the don't have ANY children, but don't have MANY children. The majority of families in poverty and therefore children in poverty, come from homes with multiple children according to the ONS.

Agree

I assume that most people in this country who plan their children do think carefully about when / if they can afford them. I know I certainly did, as did my siblings and my adult daughters. I don’t know anyone who’s had children in order to look after them when they are old! So I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
onviously, some pregnancies are unplanned, some people don’t think about the cost, some do but don’t care. It takes all sorts to be a parent!

@Jalisco the obvious, but shortsightedly unpopular) answer to that is to ramp up investment in those children to give a better chance that they will be more productive members of society than their parents.

following my post above, we need younger generations to be well educated and motivated to deal with the toppling pyramid of elderly care and lost skills we’ve built society on.

No, actually. I’m the eldest of four children born to dirt-poor, illiterate parents, who had far more children than they could afford — I grew up counting the days til, pay/dole day, knowing never to ask for second helpings or to bring a friend home after school because the money wasn’t there. It was an utterly miserable way to grow up. Your personal right to reproduce doesn’t mitigate the effect of poverty on your children.

I mentioned 'low incomes,' which suggests paid employment and you're on about 'dole day...'