the "don't have kids if u can't afford them" mentality...

Of course you shouldn’t have children if you don’t have enough money to feed and clothe them. It’s irresponsible and selfish. Having a child isn’t a right so if you can’t earn enough to meet their basic needs, then you don’t deserve to have a child.

I have the number I can afford and give a good life to. I’ve made a conscious decision to not have more for financial reasons as my obligation is to take care of them and give them a good life.

People who live in overcrowded accommodation because they have a 2 bed flat with 5 children and are then moaning as the council won’t give them a bigger house should not be procreating. If they want to be a parent, then they could have 1 and not 5. People should absolutely not have more children then they can afford. Of course I would judge them, how could you not judge someone openly selfish and irresponsible? Bringing your child into a life of poverty to meet your own needs is neglect.

Well of course. Despite the virtue signalling on here no MN parent wants their children to work in the care sector! It's just used as alineto bash us childfree people.

It’s a myth that the car/plane travel offsets kids. Having a child is many, many measures worse than running a car or taking long haul flights every so often.

Why are children something people “deserve” or don’t? For most people they are a choice.

This is not a judgement because I think ivf should always be free but I'm baffled that people who have been trying for a dc for several years can't afford ivf.
If they haven't saved £6k in 4/5 years how do they think they'll afford dc?
3 days childcare is £8k roughly. X 3 years thats £24k.

I started reading through the thread but started to feel confused by it all, it is obviously an emotive subject for many, as it should be really. There are a lot of factors present in the OP that seem to correlate but in my opinion don't. For example the opinion that children should continue to be born to care for elderly is naive, and not really going to work. We do have an aging population crisis set to get worse, but procreating to create an army of helpers is not the solution is it? The solution creates it's own problems, and I am not comfortable with the idea that someone's child is being born to take care of me in forty years. I think we have chosen to prolong life at any cost, and are seeing the downside of that. I personally dread becoming old in a society that wants to prolong my life but sees no value in me while they do it. We need to work to prolong health (where possible) and not just life. We need to start being responsible for ourselves.

I have thought "Why have more kids, you can't afford the ones you have", but this thought is more holistic of the different costs of child-rearing. When I see children struggling because of lack of multiple resources (mainly love, time and attention as well as money ), I struggle to remain supportive. (Although I never comment, it is not my place to). I am supportive of my taxes going to children for education, care and support and I believe it is a form of "It takes a village to raise a child" mentality, I do not care if the countries benefits are used to support loving and caring families, we need so much more of them!

Completely reasonable, how could it not be? But you do have to ask yourself why you are subject to living in a society where that’s the case even though it’s clear where we’re heading.

Everyone says oh you'll find a way
I can't afford a child. Would I like one? Yes
But I can't afford nappies, clothes, childcare so that's the end of that. I can just about afford looking after myself
If I got pregnant I would have to terminate

This.

Out of the 11 elderly people I have known (aged 75 to 93) who have died, one needed carers in twice a day for a couple of months. The whole “you’ll need someone to wipe your arse in your old age” nonsense that frequently comes up on these threads is complete crap.

In answer to what, I will refer you to the first line of your OP is Who exactly do this lot think are going to be looking after them in hospitals and care homes when they're elderly and infirm?

I agree with this. I did a ton load of volunteering in the past to run activities for local children. Lately I wonder if I was a mug and should just have worked those hours and got paid doing a job and fuck everyone else.

I have a very large family and often get people saying to me how bad for the planet it is BUT we don’t have a car or use air travel so it’s offset whereas the people who criticise me have 2 or 3 children , 2 family cars and go on multiple holidays a year

The over-reactionary defensive response from people posed to the practical dilemma faced by everybody isn’t exactly helpful.

It is a fact that birth rates are declining and it’s a fact that will affect the quality of life of the increasing elderly population. It’s perfectly fair for someone to point out that the stereotypical channel 5 documentary family aren’t the problem here and whatever ‘benefits’ they’re claiming is more than a drop in the ocean compared to chaos coming in society. It’s a distraction and not worthy of the level of public scorn it receives.

Maybe if we valued caring and build communities so we focus on caring for eachother, children, elderly, friends and neighbours, rather than glorifying individuals amassing as much money as possible but who don’t have the time for anything else and think caring is actually beneath them, we wouldn’t need to have this conversation.

why is it we allow energy companies to make billions, more money than they can spend in a lifetime, while millions of human beings have to choose between heating an eating?

Also in regards to care staffing crisis, maybe we should be paying carers more than the joke wage of 10 quid an hour in the counties with biggest portion of ageing population.

Maybe we shouldn't prop it up, but there's no doubt it's going to be horrific for those at the top of the scheme when it collapses and they don't see any of the care or benefits they assumed that they were entitled to and the state would provide. What is needed is long-term government planning to ensure a 'soft landing' but we've had governments for the past couple of decades who couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag.

The children trapped in poverty aren’t going to be the doctors.

I have worked in care work. Most care workers have not been born in Britain. So for that YABU.

Why is that ignorant?

My working class parents had 3 kids, mum worked part time, dad worked every hour possible as a vacuum molding engineer often sleeping in his workshop in order to get as much done as possible.

Us kids all did summer work and things like paper rounds from age 13 then weekend jobs from 15 and since then have been consistently employed.

I had 9 months off for maternity leave then DD went to nursery full time while I worked full time.

My parents raised kids with a strong work ethic and a desire to progress and be financially comfortable and we all are even though none of us have a university education.

According to my p60i paid just over £23k in tax last year.

So why is it ignorant to suggest that raising your kids with expectations above min wage work is a good idea?