To complain about the office cleaning lady?

She's not a cleaner. She's a mole for your rival companies.

YANBU. It seems to be an inevitable consequence of outsourcing , though, that no one is really available/contactable; and that the services provided are in some way or other not very satisfactory.

I would talk to buildings again, though, and point out that your contract is with them, not the cleaner's company.

You answered your own question Weasels. It's cost cutting. I would imagine the cleaners find it pretty stressful too, being in the way whatever they are doing.

Jaxhog I doubt she's being deliberately rude because she's 'miffed at being a cleaner'.

I'm quite surprised at some of these replies. How has it become normal practice to clean during office hours? I work in a large building and cost cutting has meant that the cleaners are in during the working day and it's ridiculous.

They clean our kitchen area at 1pm; just as everyone is trying to get their lunch (and one thought she was being clever to block the whole area - a through-route - with bins and her cart). They clean the stairs as people are coming in in the morning or leaving in the evening, and get huffy when they have to stop. They clean the toilets at 9am, just as everyone needs to go before going off to a meeting.

For a couple of months we had one who insisted on vacuuming the office at 11am every day. She took no notice at all of meetings, or people on the phone, and trailed her electric cable through the kitchen and past a load of desks. She "cleaned" the desks with dirty water in a bucket and a grimy rag. If you had papers on the desk she'd slop around them. She would then wipe the backs of the computers with the wet rag.

I complained to the cleaning supervisor, who "didn't see why it was a problem" (that she was preventing work on a multi million pound project for 30 minutes at the peak time of the day). Taking it to senior management got it stopped and now we have a man who comes in at 4pm when the office is quieter.

She's showing a total lack of respect. If the only way she can clean rooms is to interrupt meetings, then something is wrong. If she's just miffed because she's a cleaner, then she's being deliberately rude. Either way, its disrupting business, so you must talk to your management.

Caveat: I am not a lawyer, and in practice it may indeed be easier for you to talk to the cleaning company directly. I was just objecting to the building manager’s “nothing I can do love” attitude.

You don’t have a contract with the cleaning slavers, your contract is with the building managers.

yes this. If the building management have outsourced the cleaning your issue is with building management to resolve. The company may well refuse to deal with you if they have no contract with you.

That’s utter bollocks. You don’t have a contract with the cleaning slavers, your contract is with the building managers. You require them to provide a clean working environment without unacceptable distractions. How they achieve it is their problem not yours.

OP YANBU and your plan sounds eminently sensible and fair.

If the facilities manager is insistent on every job being done and the cleaner is just following instructions, could you suggest that you offer to set up a system that allows you to sign off on any "skipped areas" to say that you have said they don't need doing? That way you have the flexibility to ask that XYZ room is not disturbed today but the cleaner has evidence that she didn't just skip jobs but was actively asked not to do it and therefore shouldn't face any sanctions.

I was an office cleaner when I was at uni and it was great because it was not a difficult job but it sucked because I had to work during office hours and had to work around the employees.

Fortunately I was given enough autonomy over my workload to be flexible with the schedule when needed so that as long as my jobs were done within my shift times it didn't matter what order they were completed in. I had a cart with all supplies and I would go along the corridor and knock at each office (4/5 desks per office) and go in and clean any communal area unless asked to come back later. Anyone who wanted their desk cleaned would take 5 minutes to grab a coffee/pop to the loo/go to the copy room etc while I gave their desk a once over (since I tended to show up at the same time every day most of the staff would know I was coming so would allow for that 5 minute break into their work). If they didn't then I just asked them to sign my job sheet to show that they had authorised me to skip that task on the list. Since this was a standard process it took literally 10 seconds to complete so nobody minded the disturbance and I had a paper trail to show why XYZ task wasn't done.

Once everything else was done I'd hoover unless someone was on the phone/asked me to skip it, but most people knew that when I came into the office I would be hoovering about 15 minutes later and only for a few minutes so when they saw me carrying my other supplies back out to the cart they knew I would be hoovering next and so either wrapped up phone calls (where possible) so that they didn't delay me, signalled me to give them a few minutes (so I'd do a couple of other miscellaneous jobs first) or knew to wait the few minutes I was hoovering before starting a new call. If an important call came in while I was hoovering they would just give me a quick shout and I was more than happy to stop while they answered it, because of the flexibility and understanding we both had for each other's jobs.

That does sound reasonable, and you are presenting management with a solution rather than a problem.
You could also suggest that she shouldn't be penalised if she can't access a room to clean it.

Any problems after that aren't down to you.

I think that sounds very reasonable op. It would help both you and the cleaner. It can be difficult trying to get everything done when rooms are occupied and maybe she felt under pressure. This may take the pressure off slightly and make your job easier too.

That sounds sensible. How long does it take to clean one of the meeting rooms?

You need to have a word with the manager and request cleaning after working hours. Having someone hoovering in the middle of a meeting is just bizarre. Or alternatively if the cleaner always has to wait for rooms to be empty, it's a waste of time.

She needs better hours. It's hell trying to clean when others are in the way. Also isn't it a waste of time? It won't stay clean for more than 30 seconds?

I have worked cleaning offices but usually between 6 and 8 am.
I once had a job in office hours and couldn't stand it. Too much waiting around switching the hoover off for intermittent phone calls and mopping under people's feet.
I quit coz it made me late for my school cleaning job and it wasn't worth the hassle of the moody boss.
It needs to be a compromise on both sides. She needs to close the door and stop barging in with Henry hoover and you as an office need to speak to the cleaning company to come up with a schedule that works.
The cleaner herself doesn't have any say on what her hours are.

Easy lock the door and leave the key in there or get her sacked.

I’ve cleaned offices and wouldn’t enter a room with a closed door without knocking. I also stopped vacuuming for phone calls (I do this now I clean houses too) and I skip desks being worked at unless they say they want them cleaned - most would go and grab a coffee or whatever when they saw me approaching but everyone is different. You quickly learn what individuals want and it works fine with mutual respect.

It can be annoying and time consuming when you end up going back and forth but , if I couldn’t get it all done, I made a mental note to make sure that room was done next time. I’m happy as long as I can justify my actions.

As she user listening to you, I would have a chat with the person in charge of cleaning but I wouldn’t complain at this stage as I suspect she’s afraid she will be in strife if she doesn’t get everything done. A friendly chat and mutual agreement may be all it takes.

Put this situation in a home instead of an office.
Would you accept a cleaner who went into private rooms without asking, nosied into private papers without permission, in fact going specifically against being asked not to.

The OP is paying for the office!

I think I love your cleaner 😁
She knows what she's doing but has a job to do and won't risk being in trouble for not completing. Why knock and wait to possibly be told 'no'
And yes her job is JUST as important as the OP's otherwise it wouldnt exist!