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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Terrified of regressive modern feminism

1000 replies

TRHR · 10/05/2021 13:14

By saying "you can't be a woman if you're born without a vagina, and if you're born with a vagina you must be a woman" you're making reproductive organs the defining and most important characteristic of being a woman. This attitude was used to oppress women for centuries. We were baby makers only, and hormonal and chromosomal differences were used to say that we were too "emotional " for public life, education and jobs. Only over the last 100 or so years have our minds and emotions been rightfully recognised as just as important as our vaginas. GC is now going back to seeing our sex organs as our most important identifier and as a feminist and a young woman this really scares me. It is playing right into the traditional patriarchy, is sexist, regressive and oppressive. The fact its being done in the name of 'feminism ' terrifies me. The recent historic implications of insisting women are defined by their bodies scares me. These views are still held by conservative (often religion based) communities and we've all seen how easy it is for these groups to gain power - feminists shouldn't be helping them justify their attitudes or behaviour.

If you've seen/read the Handmaid's Tale you'll know what attitudes I'm afraid of. GCs ironically tell TRAs they are 'handmaids' when actually it is their attitude that has historically led to the oppression that Attwood (who is trans inclusive) bases her books on.

Gender is not a set of stereotypes - it's an identity based on culture, history, society , psychology and often (but not always) sex. It's far more freeing than "vagina = woman" and takes account of each of us as individuals not just bodies, which is what feminism up until now has fought for.
As an example, many trans women don't wear "girly " clothes, they identify as "masculine/butch" lesbians. Many trans men still like wearing make up and dresses e.g. in drag.
Many people would say the world shouldn't be defined as 'male / female' at all. But it always has done, that won't be changed in our lifetime. So seen as that is our social structure, it's oppressive to police how people choose to move through life under this structure based on bodies.
Thanks for reading this far and if I get one extra person to consider the harm that GC is doing, especially to young women of child bearing age, it'll be worth the condescension and vitriol that this post will inevitably receive.

OP posts:
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Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 10/05/2021 13:16

Oh shhhhh

DialSquare · 10/05/2021 13:20

Oops. Did you mean to post the following sentence in your "anyone can be a woman" rant?

especially to young women of child bearing age

MadelaineMaxwell · 10/05/2021 13:21

Ok. Whatever.

Swimminglanes · 10/05/2021 13:21

Who told you all that rubbish?

Harm? What harm?

NecessaryScene1 · 10/05/2021 13:22

What is "words"?

ShamedBySiri · 10/05/2021 13:23

Many people would say the world shouldn't be defined as 'male / female' at all.

And yet it is only women, of the adult human female variety, who will get pregnant through unprotected sex, who may need to access abortion services, who need recognition of the demands that pregnancy and childbearing make on their bodies, who need recuperation and recovery afterwards, who can breast feed and nurture the baby, who need employment protection to help them through this period of their lives. And when adult human males complain they haven't got access to a womb and need to rent one to obtain a baby, they know exactly which sort of woman to look for and exploit.

Weird huh Hmm

ShamedBySiri · 10/05/2021 13:24

I should add I meant *unprotected sex with a male of the adult human male variety.

NecessaryScene1 · 10/05/2021 13:25

as a feminist and a young woman this really scares me

Just stop being a woman then, and you'll be fine.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 10/05/2021 13:25

If you cannot name sex, you cannot see sexism.

Swimminglanes · 10/05/2021 13:25

"especially to young women of child bearing age"
When you say ESPECIALLY is that because child bearing makes a difference?

ColonelPine · 10/05/2021 13:25

@DialSquare

Oops. Did you mean to post the following sentence in your "anyone can be a woman" rant?

especially to young women of child bearing age

My thoughts exactly!
persistentwoman · 10/05/2021 13:26

Who on earth defines feminism in relation to what trans people wear? Maybe you've been on twatter for too long OP? Grin

MonkeyNotOrgangrinder · 10/05/2021 13:26

No, you've got it wrong. GCs, as you call gender critical feminists, are saying that anyone who's not female can't be a woman. It doesn't follow that we are then saying that women are only baby making machines. Not sure why you think that?
Women should be free to be whatever we want to, but all women are female. We are the sex that can grow babies and give birth, which is pretty amazing. Women who don't have babies for whatever reason are still women/female. Men are not and never xan be women/female. They are male.

Aposterhasnoname · 10/05/2021 13:26

@NecessaryScene1

as a feminist and a young woman this really scares me

Just stop being a woman then, and you'll be fine.

You win the internet today.
RebeccaOfSunnyHellFarm · 10/05/2021 13:27

I am a young women of child bearing age

I don't recognise any truth in what you say.
There's something about pushing a small human through your vagina and the subsequent sexism you face that makes you appreciate that our oppression is very much sex based.
And before you say I'm excluding infertile women, they're discriminated against at childbearing age for their sex and perceived ability to conceive in a way that men aren't.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 10/05/2021 13:27

Contrary to popular belief FWR isn’t a hive mind, lots of posters with different views

Some feminists, some radical, some GC, some liberal some others that I can’t remember and some people who don’t call themselves feminists at all

123ZYX · 10/05/2021 13:28

You can have a vagina and be a nurse. You can have a vagina and be an engineer. You can have a vagina and be a decorator. You can have a vagina and be a teacher. You can have a vagina and be a stay at home mum. You can have a vagina and not have a job.

You can have a vagina and wear what you like. You can have a vagina and wear makeup or not.

You can have a vagina and enjoy knitting. You can have a vagina and enjoy golf. You can have a vagina and enjoy hiking. You can have a vagina and enjoy painting.

Feminism is fighting for people with vaginas ("women") to be allowed and supported to do what they want to do, whether that's traditionally feminine or not. Their personality doesn't make any female less of a woman.

Ingridla · 10/05/2021 13:28

Terrified? Really!

Feminists rarely have a problem with trans people. It's only when they want to hurt us and take delight in saying so, case in point - Fallon Fox.

It's the crank trans activists who tend to be very young and their perpetual attack on grown women that are the problem, what is it exactly they are so angry about? I suspect it's problematic relationships with their own parents which they can take out on strangers online personally.

lonel · 10/05/2021 13:29

if you're born with a vagina you must be a woman" you're making reproductive organs the defining and most important characteristic of being a woman
That's only a problem if you go on to say "and that means you can only reproduce and child rear". Which feminists aren't saying. You seem to think it though. Is it just possible you haven't understood feminism at all? Hmmm...

TheMarzipanDildo · 10/05/2021 13:29

The other side seems pretty regressive to me. Defining a woman by anything other than simple biology suggests that there are certain other traits that SHOULD hold women together as a class (behaviour? opinions? dress sense? shutting up and putting up? staying in the kitchen?) which is just bollocks. The only thing that makes me a woman is my chromosomes. The rest of it has just been pushed on me by a misogynistic society.

Noregrets78 · 10/05/2021 13:30

Oh my days... is it me, or are we not that far apart? Anyone can dress, or act, in whatever stereotypical, or non stereotypical way which they like. I think this is agreed by everyone and non contentious.

You seem to think that GC feminists are trying to put girls into a box, when they're not.

I've heard no-one obsessing about vaginas or baby making capabilities...

MrsWooster · 10/05/2021 13:32

In the midst of all this thinking that you’ve been doing, op, have you thought about the defining reason why women are an oppressed class? The reason why certain foetuses are aborted and others cherished?
Our biology doesn’t defines us but it does define our oppression.

Swimminglanes · 10/05/2021 13:32

The Handmaids Tale was a silly sci fi novel. I read it years ago and thought it overwrought nonsense, especially the daft sex scenes and silly uniforms. I don't care what Attwood thinks, she's in the entertainment business, just like tons of other celebs.

TheMarzipanDildo · 10/05/2021 13:32

And I am a “young woman of child bearing age”. I have no particular desire to have kids but I do have health problems relating to my reproductive organs.

MindtheBelleek · 10/05/2021 13:33

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

If you cannot name sex, you cannot see sexism.
Hear hear.

Honestly, OP. Your thought processes seem incredibly confused.

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