The Times Law section Thursday 1st April. Trans judge wants a more diverse judiciary

[happydappy2]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/victoria-mccloud-a-transgender-judge-wants-a-more-diverse-judiciary-jc7rqhbc9

The comments are interesting...

Can't read it.

Does more diversity just mean more male born individuals of varying identities as usual?

Share token anyone?

This is what I find so tough.... only the second woman to hold this post..... May be a very good lawyer, but shouldn't be counted among the "women"

Here's a sharetoken link

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/victoria-mccloud-a-transgender-judge-wants-a-more-diverse-judiciary-jc7rqhbc9?shareToken=43739583c5642d8089df61e1b5437891

Sure, the judiciary needs to be more diverse - it should have more people who have various of the protected characteristics, in rough proportion to the population. I'm pretty sure that means that there should be a lot more women (born females, for the avoidance of doubt) , and quite a lot more from ethnic minorities, for starters. Maybe there aren't an appropriate proportion of trans people, I don't know - are there yet any transmen on the bench?

@loveyouradvice

Share token anyone?

This is what I find so tough.... only the second woman to hold this post..... May be a very good lawyer, but shouldn't be counted among the "women"

Yeah... well, that definitely flags up the need for more real diversity doesn't it?

"Victoria McCloud was the youngest Queen’s Bench Master of the High Court of England and Wales when she was appointed, aged 40, in 2010 — and is only the second woman to hold that post."

Isn't it amazing that she was able to get that position so early as a woman!

Errol thanks for the share token...how do you create one pls?

But the main thing that stood out for me is that there are only 2 women who have held that post.

What is it about judiciary that makes it so hard for females to get to this role?

McCloud is white, male and middle class, three groups which are over represented in UK judiciary.

relevant facts from the OP article:

Born in Surrey in 1969

Father, who died in 2010, was in the RAF and served in the Second World War before becoming a rocket research scientist and university engineering lecturer. From him McCloud gained a love of technology and computers.

“My Welsh identity is probably more significant to me” — something she inherited from her artist and teacher mother, whose first language is Welsh.

McCloud graduated from Christ Church, Oxford with a degree in experimental psychology and a doctorate in the brain’s processing of three-dimensional vision before training as barrister. She is also a chartered psychologist.

While sitting as a judge, McCloud is studying for a second doctorate at Oxford in analysing the use of visual symbols in online identities.

Called to the Bar in 1995, she was a tenant at Coram Chambers, where she practised general civil and costs law and has been an editor and author of the White Book, the bible of the civil courts, since 2000.

Transitioning in the late 1990s after starting out as a barrister.

Outside court McCloud is a keen walker and enjoys reading about American history and keeping up to date with brain science and artificial intelligence.
lives in London with her wife, Annie McCloud and two large fluffy cats.

McCloud was also the youngest judge to hold a seat in the High Court.

When I was studying law, this was discussed. There seem to be a few things going on. Men hiring people in their own image is one thing. Another reason is that members of the judiciary are often selected from barristers who have practised commercial law, which attracts more men. Women often practise in areas such as family law, and are more often overlooked (obviously I generalise).

Interestingly, in countries where the recruitment process is different, and where judges are not necessarily barristers before being judges, women are better represented.

@happydappy2

Errol thanks for the share token...how do you create one pls?

I only know how to do it from the tablet app, it's one of the icons in the bottom right corner. I think com the browser version it should be possible using the envelope symbol and then c&ping the link but I use DHs times account and don't have that set up

Sorry, my post was to mumofgirls.

Hmmm, quite a few of the comments under the article have vanished.

@EdgeOfACoin

When I was studying law, this was discussed. There seem to be a few things going on. Men hiring people in their own image is one thing. Another reason is that members of the judiciary are often selected from barristers who have practised commercial law, which attracts more men. Women often practise in areas such as family law, and are more often overlooked (obviously I generalise).

Interestingly, in countries where the recruitment process is different, and where judges are not necessarily barristers before being judges, women are better represented.

That is interesting.

Men hiring people in their own image sounds familiar.

Is the difficulty for females having to be barristers first also to do with the amount of work/ cases that you have to put in before becoming established enough to apply; and how a career might escalate just about the time women get into a period their life (eg. age 30-45) when eg. children and other life pressures also increase?

I thought that maybe then you'd see more women applying later, but perhaps there's some ageism or other life pressures (ill parents etc).

Men hiring people in their own image sounds familiar.

From Arrianna Planey:

"When someone manages to rise up through our hobbled alleged meritocracy and is crowned the first to hold a position, I know that does not mean that they were the only one who possibly could."

When someone manages to rise up through our hobbled alleged meritocracy and is crowned the first to hold a position, I know that does not mean that they were the only one who possibly could. I’d assumed everyone understood this, but it has become clear to me in the last few years, as these news of firsts in media and publishing and film and sports came rolling in, as people wrote and agonized over what felt like a shift in culture, that that was naive. People in power, the ones doing the crowning, generally believe that there is no one else qualified until they happen to decide to bestow the crown. It’s easier that way, isn’t it? To think that the first happened just because the right person finally managed to emerge and break through, and not because there was a whole system put in place to make sure no one who looks a certain way or comes from a particular background ever has a chance to do so in the first place. I am reminded of a Chris Rock quote, one he gave during Barack Obama’s second term as president. “To say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first Black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not Black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been Black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years.”

Not judiciary, but DH is an extremely male dominated occupation. It has been observed that when a woman is in charge of a Section, more women both go for promotion and achieve it. They are trying to work out why... Theory is it's a mix of more supportive environment, female bosses recognising women's worth, and aspiration being higher seeing other high achieving women.

Called to the Bar in 1995, she was a tenant at Coram Chambers, where she practised general civil and costs law and has been an editor and author of the White Book, the bible of the civil courts, since 2000.

Transitioning in the late 1990s after starting out as a barrister.

So McCloud had full benefit of white male advantage in gaining their place at the bar (which by the fact that there are so few women and only one woman at the highest level obviously removed quite a significant hurdle for McCloud).

I remember seeing Dr McCloud in the Sunday Times list of Top 100 Women of the Year - ironically feted for McCloud's work to help trans people by making it easier to change their names and conceal any previous names. Thus undermining the DBS checking system. I'm not sure what the outcome was.

@embarassingadmissions exactly.

I would love it if Victoria McCloud helped to increase female representation in the judiciary, through measures that tackle the barriers for females.

The comments that have been deleted were along the lines of questioning the incorrect reporting, of referring to a male as a she.

The Times have been great at covering the issue but I guess IPSO have strict rules on what is considered ‘hateful’

When correctly sexing a human is hateful, we’re in trouble...

Victoria McCloud was the youngest Queen’s Bench Master of the High Court of England and Wales when she was appointed, aged 40, in 2010 — and is only the second woman to hold that post.

Who was the first? Unless she was a man, she must be a truly astonishing woman, and so far the only one who’s made it to that position.

Oh and... yet another person claiming to be a woman who is feted as being a woman, yet only pushes the “transgender diversity” rhetoric. No surprises there.

The Times have been great at covering the issue but I guess IPSO have strict rules on what is considered ‘hateful’

I don't know whether I've done something to attract a flag on my Times subscription but I have something like a 60% success rate in getting my innocuous comments under Times pieces not to be deleted. They can often take more than 24 hours to appear. When I post correcting TRA disinformation my deletion rate is more like 80%. I think that sooner rather than later this will get me to cancel my subscription.

nauticant At least they also delete DoM.

I'd love to reproduce one of my deleted comments here - but I can´t...

I remember seeing Dr McCloud in the Sunday Times list of Top 100 Women of the Year - ironically feted for McCloud's work to help trans people by making it easier to change their names and conceal any previous names. Thus undermining the DBS checking system. I'm not sure what the outcome was.

This is very concerning. It would be interesting to know the specifics of this work.

That Chris Rock quote is excellent.

The same principle can be applied to many of the 'first women to...'. Women have always had the ability to do these , but not the opportunity.

Totally DARVOesque. Disgusting. Mc Cloud says the word 'master' is not intended to be gendered. Then says that women are colonising it. You only colonise something that was not yours in the first place -if the word is not gendered women did not colonise it! . Instead it is McCloud who has colonised womanhood. And been allowed to by the establishment where its fine to colonise womanhood .What a surprise that that word came to his mind because it was him who was doing it not women!