World Rugby Guidelines out

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.world.rugby/news/591776/world-rugby-approves-updated-transgender-participation-guidelines

"it was concluded that safety and fairness cannot presently be assured for women competing against transwomen in contact rugby."

"As a result, the new guidelines do not recommend that transwomen play women’s contact rugby on safety grounds at the elite and international level of the game where size, strength, power and speed are crucial for both risk and performance, but do not preclude national unions from flexibility in their application of the guidelines at the community level of the game. Transmen are permitted to participate in men’s contact rugby. "

Has anyone noticed the BBC headline and report has now changed (and now includes quotes from Fairplay for Women)? Bit of backtracking there maybe!

@BirdsInTheAttic

Has anyone noticed the BBC headline and report has now changed (and now includes quotes from Fairplay for Women)? Bit of backtracking there maybe!

Yes - you're right. The two paragraphs about the LGB alliance response are new, they weren't there earlier. And the headline is much less one-sided.

Posie's absolutely right about community rugby, though.

Also - has anyone noticed the strange wording in World Rugby's announcement. Rather than saying "we recommend that transwomen don't play women's rugby", they've said "We don't recommend that transwomen do play women's rugby." Very different meaning. The science that went into the report would seem (to my mind) to support the former, the latter allows way too much wriggle room.

Massive change. Well done to those who complained, but of course most BBC readers will have read the earlier version.

I wonder if that's a deliberate tactic... Put up the biased propaganda piece first, which gets an initial rush of hits. Subsequently edit to add the odd fact and make a nod to reality, but by that time a lot of the people who are interested in the story will have already read it and will have no reason to click again. And for those complaining about bias - what do you mean? Nothing to see here.

The initial story, which they shared on their Facebook page last night, was just about the decision from World Rugby and had no response from Stonewall and whoever. All comments but one on the Facebook story were pleased with WR.

Ah, here's the story. Of course, that one wasn't on the homepage.

The caption for the picture in the BBC article reads "Transgender women are now unable to play international rugby union". This is factually incorrect, isn't it? It's only women's rugby they can't play. Phrased as it is, it sounds discriminatory, implying that it's transness which is being excluded (which would be transphobic), rather than maleness (which is entirely correct for a female sport).

It’s all very well focusing on science and looking at hormone levels and strength, but to be honest there should never have even been an argument about this. Males should not be allowed in women’s sports. The focus of the argument is now going to shift to letting puberty blocked males compete and then there will have to be studies about whether these particular males have an advantage or not. We shouldn’t even have to be on the defensive about this - it should simply be an axiom that only females can compete in women’s sports. To have studies investigating whether some males are safe to compete in women’s sports is as absurd as a study into whether adults can compete against children. Safety is obviously important but it’s also rather besides the point. I just wish that rather spending a lot to time and money investigating the equivalent of whether bears shit in the woods the sporting authorities would just say “no”.

And it’s so manipulative-it should say transgender men because it sounds like the meanies have excluded trans sexuals

Tbf everyone I’ve spoken to about it in person is of the opinion that allowing “trans women” to compete in rugby shouldn’t even need saying it’s unfair; it should be blindingly obvious (and is)

I'm delighted with the world rugby decision, and hopefully it will filter down because the science is the science.

And of course the rank misogynists who are in complete science denial meltdown deserve nothing but contempt.

But even the 'good guys' are getting to me.

What I've been really struck by is the amount of handwringing and defensive justification and banging on about philosophical ideas, in order to just tell men no.

The self evident science had to be re-investigated, ffs. Endless dotting of I's and crossing of T's on something that everybody knows. Because they have eyes.

And furthermore, once again, I'm compelled to say to men that women are human beings, you know. Who have historically been excluded from sport because of rank sexism. We have had to fight for every tiny thing. And now this.

Just because a few male individuals have gender dysphoria or cross dress, the whole world and his wife are trying to squeeze women out of the picture, once more. The pushback means they can't, but oh my God the handwringing.

I'm just hearing we're awfully sorry, we wish it could be otherwise because some men are disappointed, we want to be inclusive, but frankly, our feet have been held to the fire now, and reluctantly we must say it's not really possible, unless of course, you've been subjected to medication as a child, or the science changes - and make no mistake, we'll be checking on that regularly, blah blah, blah.

Just because some very brave, strong, tenacious women have said NO.

And they will still have to sleep with one eye open.

The caption for the picture in the BBC article reads "Transgender women are now unable to play international rugby union". This is factually incorrect, isn't it? It's only women's rugby they can't play. Phrased as it is, it sounds discriminatory, implying that it's transness which is being excluded (which would be transphobic), rather than maleness (which is entirely correct for a female sport).

Yup as usual. Everywhere I have seen this talked about (bar feminist groups) its been framed as transwomen barred from rugby fullstop, rather than just banned from competing against female people, as males. Trans is almost irrelevant, as usual, its about sex, not 'transness'

It's all on a par with being 'erased' by keeping a few women's spaces single sex.

Tbf everyone I’ve spoken to about it in person is of the opinion that allowing “trans women” to compete in rugby shouldn’t even need saying it’s unfair; it should be blindingly obvious (and is)

Yeah, same. Also, my cousins partner is transsexual ('old school' post op, though that matters not much really) and is 100% firmly against any males being in womens sports. She says its blatantly obvious and its bonkers that its ever been allowed. Also reckons among other transsexual people she knows, they think the same.

Mind shes also very against near everything 'transactivists' stand for/want. So would be classed as 'truscum,' to them, like many transsexual people who aren't just about stereotypes but dysphoria.

It's all on a par with being 'erased' by keeping a few women's spaces single sex.

And wanting trans people to not exist (or thinking they don't exist), because you wish to retain female spaces/rights too.

@NRatched

It's all on a par with being 'erased' by keeping a few women's spaces single sex.

And wanting trans people to not exist (or thinking they don't exist), because you wish to retain female spaces/rights too.

It just gets so wearisome seeing this everywhere. Only this afternoon someone was tweeting that campaigners wouldn't be happy until every trans person was driven to suicide. This hysteria just erodes any sympathy you might have started with.

Do agree. It's the kind of overdramatic flounce you get when you ask your teen to do the washing up, and they storm upstairs slamming doors and declaring that you've never loved them. Cutted up pear in a bigger body.

😂cutted up pear

I can’t believe (well I can) Stonewall would sell out lesbians in pursuit of a trans purity spiral but they’re committed aren’t they, on a trajectory? They have to support “trans” women being women in every possible way because they’ve stuck their stake in the ground now.

Did anyone archive the original version of the article?

I would like to do a compare and contrast but have been unable to find the original so far...

@TheFleegleHasLanded

Transgender women in rugby union: Mixed reaction to World Rugby decision
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54491179

World Rugby says transgender women cannot compete in women's elite contact rugby
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54484287

[quote FindTheTruth]@TheFleegleHasLanded

Transgender women in rugby union: Mixed reaction to World Rugby decision
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54491179

World Rugby says transgender women cannot compete in women's elite contact rugby
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54484287[/quote]
The first of those is the article after the BBC had edited it. Originally it was missing the two paragraphs on reaction from the LGB Alliance and had a much more inflammatory headline.

Fleegle wanted to see the before and after versions.

The reason this matters is that the vast majority of readers of the BBC website will only have read the earlier biased version, and will have come away with the erroneous take home message "world rugby in random, egregious transphobic ban on transwomen."

3 ladies discussing World Rugby now. some interesting points.

Linda Blade saying that mixed sex in sports will result in girl 'learned helplessness'.

Ro Edge saying that people agree in private but too afraid to speak out.

Linda Blade points out that World Rugby didn't need to comment on community sport as it's outside their jurisdiction - they should have stuck to international rules and left it at that.

Jesus H Christ! Ro Edge spilling the beans on the situation in NZ.

The Black Ferns (NZ women's rugby team) asked their national governing body to go along with World Rugby recommendations in preventing male players from joining the women's game - and the national body rejected their petition on the grounds that they (the Black Ferns) didn't understand the issues!

It's like some crazy real-life version of the Fast Show's "Women: Know your limits" sketch.

Yet again I find myself hearing "Women have no idea how much men hate them" echoing in my head.

national body rejected their petition on the grounds that they (the Black Ferns) didn't understand the issues!

It's unbelievable. A point made brilliantly in the video is that they should be knocking at the door to prove that 'mixed sex works', rather than women having to prove the blindingly obvious ... same point mentioned up thread a number of times too. we all know this.

I find NZ's stance on this really shameful.

From a young age, NZ children are taught that the most important thing in sport is playing fair. "Play hard but play fair" is the lesson we're taught over and over again. It's in advertising from the All Blacks, in every sports competition, in all the games you play at school. Or at least it was like that before I moved to the UK.

And now there's Laurel Hubbard, and this attitude from NZRFU, apparently, and I guess that's why NZ is doubling down on the TWAW thing, because otherwise we're cheating.