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Irish Sunday Indo article

(15 Posts)
RedLemon Sun 01-Dec-19 22:01:16

Really great article in the Sunday Independent in Ireland today from a psychologist with genuine concerns about the rise in number of trans identifying kids.

First time I’ve seen something of this sort in an Irish paper I think.

Article here- you just need to register to read it- no payment. Not sure if it’ll be clicky...
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/life/transgender-children-the-concept-of-being-born-in-the-wrong-body-is-troubling-38742200.html

Cuntysnark Sun 01-Dec-19 22:14:58

Thank you. Will look at it tomorrow.

Twistables Sun 01-Dec-19 22:29:05

I wonder will Ireland be able to swerve the carnage of trans activism? Donal O Shea seems pretty staunch

DuchessDumbarton Sun 01-Dec-19 22:45:41

I've read her say something similar previously....and I think what she says is on the nail.

As for swerving the carnage, I think it's under our wheels already, unfortunately (to extend your analogy grin).

A (predominantly female) professional organisation with which I have some contact, have released a LGBT position paper, prepared in conjunction with senior (ish) health care professionals.
It refers to "men can be pregnant too"......

DuchessDumbarton Sun 01-Dec-19 22:49:19

And, Regina Doherty proposes legislation to make it easier for older teenagers to self-declare a gender change.

And, my DC's school have had talks from Trans speakers...none from gay speakers, but the trans advocates have been in.

Backinthecloset123 Sun 01-Dec-19 22:55:48

I couldn't find any link to that article OP but while searching found this from 2 days ago.

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-legislation-to-make-it-easier-for-teenagers-to-change-gender-1.4099892

in which concern is voiced that 16 and 17 year olds still need parental support.

Backinthecloset123 Sun 01-Dec-19 22:58:41

Found it .

www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/patients-coached-to-fasttrack-sex-change-treatment-38543409.html

SlightlyBonkersQFA Sun 01-Dec-19 23:02:57

I hope Regina Doherty is paying attention. I usually admire her but groaned when I read about her legislation to allow teens to self-declare i thought ofgs 😑

I posted on a thread on fb about teens self declaring, and later got notifications that somebody was trying to log in to my fb. 😯

ludog Mon 02-Dec-19 07:00:41

I cant find a link for the problem page in yesterday's Sindo but did anyone else see it? Letter from man 'born in the wrong body' the letter and reply ticked all the woke boxes. Good to see balance anyway wink

Twistables Mon 02-Dec-19 08:49:23

But Donal O Shea has come out for square against WPATH guidelines and against the trans activists. That must carry some weight?

RedLemon Mon 02-Dec-19 10:01:44

I can’t find an open link but it’s an interview with Stella O’Malley; a psychotherapist, who was convinced as a child that she should have been a boy. “Puberty was a train wreck. And yet ultimately it fundamentally released me from what is now termed gender dysphoria.”

She goes on to talk about her contribution to a new book “Inventing Transgender Children and Young People”.

“‘Born in the wrong body’ is a great description of a feeling but it’s not a diagnosis. And, psychologically, that is a very dangerous thing to say to somebody.... are people who are born in very challenging bodies, through disability, are they born in the ‘wrong’ body? I reject the concept. We’re born in the body we have.”

She goes on to talk about the guiding concept of healthcare “first so no harm” and then strong commentary on the silencing of debate and how pernicious that is; “A sign of a progressive society I’d that we debate, discuss, argue. We permit disagreement, because after robust disagreement, one gets better solutions.”

Great article and it gives me a tiny bit of hope that the absolutely unquestioning woke-washing of modern Irish life might still stand a chance of being shaped, maybe, a little bit, by the nuance of frank, rational debate.

RedLemon Mon 02-Dec-19 10:02:37

“is that we debate” that should say.

ludog Mon 02-Dec-19 10:08:49

Woke-washing, great description grin

DuchessDumbarton Mon 02-Dec-19 11:58:56

"Are people who are born in very challenging bodies, through disability, are they born in the ‘wrong’ body? I reject the concept. We’re born in the body we have.”
I want to stand up and applaud this sentiment.

It is so disrespectful to people who have been born with missing limbs, significant Cerebral Palsy, heart defects etc.
With no way to "identify out" of what they have.
It is such a fundamental tenet of maturity, that one accepts the limitations of one's physical being.

On another thread here, there is an interview with a German Psychiatrist. He says that puberty requires much greater integration and adaptation skills of biological girls that it does of boys. In this sense, we may possibly draw a parallel to eating disorders.
For anorexia, we assume a similar cause, namely that female adolescents are overwhelmed with the integration of sexuality at this age...In particular they are overwhelmed with the underlying beauty and body image ideals, which they perceive as a powerful stressor and which put a lot of pressure on them. "

I think that is very relevant to the cases of ROGD that we see in girls.
For boys & men, I think, it is also a complex mix of
- avoiding being "gay"
- not being able to integrate emotional sensitivity and intelligence with one's perception of being male
- conflating an interest in flamboyant dress and make-up, with being female only

Twistables Tue 03-Dec-19 22:29:32

"puberty requires much greater integration and adaptation skills of biological girls that it does of boys" This seems key to me. And it's not acknowledged enough

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