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Lush has fallen

(240 Posts)
WomanBornNotWorn Sat 30-Nov-19 11:21:49

One more shop to walk past

WomanBornNotWorn Sat 30-Nov-19 11:22:07

puds11 Sat 30-Nov-19 11:26:33

Can I ask what the trans issue is? I’m seeing talk of it a lot but haven’t been able to get to the crux of the problem and am finding it confusing. I’m ashamed to say I’m a bit behind on the info with regards to trans and pan sexual ( I’m still not sure I fully understand pan sexuality) and have taken the approach of ‘do what makes you happy’ However MN is definitely making me feel I’ve missed a major piece on info on trans. If wouldn’t mind explaining that would be great as I feel rather ignorant at the moment.

Oakmaiden Sat 30-Nov-19 11:29:20

@puds11 thre is a good thread here:

Birdsfoottrefoil Sat 30-Nov-19 11:29:48

Lush have always been woke.

puds11 Sat 30-Nov-19 11:33:00

Thank you @Oakmaiden

PreseaCombatir Sat 30-Nov-19 11:33:58

When were lush ever above the ground?

Datun Sat 30-Nov-19 11:34:24

Lush fell yonks ago.

Pityparty4one Sat 30-Nov-19 11:35:28

Lush is not know for its feminist views given it promoted sexualization of it's mostly female staff a few years ago.
Customers were encouraged to kiss the staffs body to leave a lipstick print...which was of coursed abused by some men.

The "trans issue" is not a trans issue it is a women's rights issue.
The loudest voice on the trans train is male and it is these males and their supporters that believe males should have access to female spaces anytime they choose just because they say so.

Murraygoldberg Sat 30-Nov-19 11:35:43

Lush fell years ago, haven't used them in years, partly because of their twaw stance but also their sales assistants are too in your face

ScrimshawTheSecond Sat 30-Nov-19 11:36:17

Lush is not a shop I frequent. Can't make it past the industrial strength perfume barrier.

Yet to be troubled by any if these boycotts, can't help feeling a bit cheated, somehow. The day Twinings falls I'll be genuinely upset.

DuMondeB Sat 30-Nov-19 11:38:17

Lush stinks. Always has, always will.

puds11 Sat 30-Nov-19 11:40:26

Thank you @Pityparty4one I have a lot of reading to do blush

NatashaAlianovaRomanova Sat 30-Nov-19 11:41:22

@ScrimshawTheSecond surely Twinings are safe?

<stocks up on Lady Grey just in case>

Thankfully I am no longer forced to frequent the Hell dimension that is Lush so this won't apply to me but agree with PP they've always been woke.

2BthatUnnoticed Sat 30-Nov-19 11:46:19

Events like don’t bother me but I crossed Lush off a long hind ago over exploitative workplace practices.

puds the issue is predatory males [not a reference to TW] taking advantage of trans inclusive policies to access previously female-only spaces and harm girls and women.

The victims tend to be working class or marginalised so it’s hard to get people to care.

DuMondeB Sat 30-Nov-19 11:49:20

They let the trans impregnator OUT and kept the pregnant woman in?

I mean, fair enough if she’s a murderer but most women end up in prison for stuff like receiving stolen goods and non payment of fines, so...

Off to learn more about it!

BarbaraStrozzi Sat 30-Nov-19 11:51:18

I've always had to cross the road to avoid lush (quite literally - the pong brings on an asthma attack) but have been thoroughly disgusted with them since the kiss a member of staff incident mentioned upthread.

MyMajesty Sat 30-Nov-19 11:52:26

They didn't think of moving him to a male prison? confused

Furrybootsyecomfy Sat 30-Nov-19 11:52:27

I can’t remember it’s name, but there is a blog detailing Lush’s exploitative working practices. Put me right off of them. They would step over their own granny for a quick buck.
Also, essential oils are bad for your skin. A dermatology nurse once told me never to shop there.

puds11 Sat 30-Nov-19 11:54:13

Thank you @2BthatUnnoticed I can’t believe I’m so out of touch!

Furrybootsyecomfy Sat 30-Nov-19 11:55:30

Ereshkigal Sat 30-Nov-19 11:55:42

FFS. Yes as pp have pointed out, Lush are reliably awful.

I wouldn't agree, obviously, but I could sort of understand if they did a campaign for Mermaids. But Belcher and Trans Media Watch? Yes, let's make sickly perfumed bath bombs to facilitate the complete destruction of women's rights with no one being able to raise an objection. Top inclusión.

teenageanxy Sat 30-Nov-19 11:56:37

They lost me with their anti police campaign

MidnightCircus Sat 30-Nov-19 11:58:22

To fall, you must first rise. Lush never have. Still, not fussed as I've never liked them. Didn't know about that kiss the staff member thing though, why the hell did anyone think that was a good idea?

AutumnRose1 Sat 30-Nov-19 11:59:48

They’ve always been batshit

If you buy according to views, you’d have ditched them years ago.

BingBongSong Sat 30-Nov-19 12:03:07

@ScrimshawTheSecond, Twinings is owned by Associated British Food. You'd think a food company would be OK, but of course we've seen stuff from Upfield (Flora) and P&G (Always, but also Gillette, Fairy, Pringles etc.). I don't know much, but P&G at least doesn't produce exclusively food.

PenguindreamsofDraco Sat 30-Nov-19 12:07:25

They lost me on the anti police thing too. I was wavering and then they did some fundraising for Mermaids I think. V easy to boycott the products - someone on MN recommended Soaposh, which is lovely. Harder to avoid the smell of course.

SunshineCake Sat 30-Nov-19 12:13:27

I thought they had gone bust. Shame they haven't. Sorry for workers losing their jobs though.

Kanga83 Sat 30-Nov-19 12:25:46

They lost me with their anti-police bollocks. Can't say I ever shopped there as it stank as badly as a skunk letting one off in a perfume factory. They are not woke to me, but rather batshit with their need for attention dressed as advertising.

MockersFactCheckMN Sat 30-Nov-19 12:28:15


I wasn't aware they ever got up.

Do they still require their staff to do the annual bare-arsed thing in nothing but aprons?

spacepyramid Sat 30-Nov-19 12:33:58

I wouldn't shop at Lush if they paid me, not since the stench from their stores became unbearable, not since they showed they were prepared to exploit their staff, not since they get the staff to be so pushy and not since their anti-police stance.

ScrimshawTheSecond Sat 30-Nov-19 12:34:24

Getting a bit nervous about Twinings, now. I think I prefer blissful ignorance. confused

spacepyramid Sat 30-Nov-19 12:35:49

As for Twinings, I think they are all owned by big companies now - Teapigs sold out to Tetley, Pukka Teas did the same with Unilever.

TirisfalPumpkin Sat 30-Nov-19 12:36:36

US Lush have done woke things before (remember a really patronising trans education campaign). I think this is a first for the UK side.

I stopped buying from them a while ago. TBH it's no loss - their stuff is overpriced, their stores are a sensory assault not just from the smells, and they have a poor reputation for staff welfare.

MockersFactCheckMN Sat 30-Nov-19 12:39:43

No, I did not imagine it:

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis Sat 30-Nov-19 12:41:12

Sorry, but I'm a bit lost as to what the issue is here?
You say "Lush has Fallen" but how is them raising money for trans charities or organisations a threat to women?
Are people even against the idea of there being trans help at all?
Otherwise if not, what's the problem?

AutumnRose1 Sat 30-Nov-19 12:44:24

Relieved I’m not the only one wondered when they weren’t fallen 😂

Mockers hopefully that was paid models rather than just asking staff....which would be illegal....hopefully? I don’t actually know.

allmywhat Sat 30-Nov-19 12:44:40

I like their massage bars because find myself giving/receiving a lot more spontaneous massages when I keep them in the house.

That said, DP isn't super keen on the smell, and Lush shops are indeed awful. Can anyone recommend an alternative source for massage bars?

TheProdigalKittensReturn Sat 30-Nov-19 12:47:25

As others have said, I think the forcing staff to run around with their arses out in public and similar stunts was enough reason to avoid them.

GCAcademic Sat 30-Nov-19 12:48:16

You say "Lush has Fallen" but how is them raising money for trans charities or organisations a threat to women?

The charity in question is Trans Media Watch. The term "media watch" should raise questions in itself. In any case, this is an organisation which is committed to the suppression of debate and the demonization of those who wish to discuss (a) the fact that there is a conflict between the rights of women to single-sex space and facilities and between the desire of other groups to have access to facilities which do not match their sex, (b) the problems that might arise from the medicalisation of children who experience gender dysphoria

MockersFactCheckMN Sat 30-Nov-19 12:54:52

...No, it was staff.




It's a regular thing.

MrsFoxPlus4Again Sat 30-Nov-19 12:56:01

Lush is shit anyways it upsets my vulva.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Sat 30-Nov-19 13:00:29

Looks bloody cold in that video too, do you see the wind?

BlouseAndSkirt Sat 30-Nov-19 13:11:16

Lush: asphyxiating women since inception.

What do we expect grin

TheProdigalKittensReturn Sat 30-Nov-19 13:13:36

It's basically Axe/Lynx for women, isn't it?

lilypainter Sat 30-Nov-19 13:18:18

They have events where they force staff to go about wearing nothing but an apron???
shock shock shock

It’s meant to be a soap shop FFS!!

MockersFactCheckMN Sat 30-Nov-19 13:29:40

...of course they don't "force" you. Everyone is a volunteer.

AutumnRose1 Sat 30-Nov-19 13:30:19

My colleague’s daughter worked in a London store summer after A levels, I’ll ask her if she knows about this.

I would say that’s a hostile work environment. Among many other things ...

TiredofthisBS Sat 30-Nov-19 13:33:25

Have Lush ever given money to a women's rights charity or lobby group?

TheProdigalKittensReturn Sat 30-Nov-19 13:34:38

"Come work for Lush! Catch a cold and a chill in a place you'd rather not mention and get your bare arse pinched all at once! Tissues for everyday runny nose caused by excessively scented products not included. Migraines as a result of all the scent a free bonus!"

Ereshkigal Sat 30-Nov-19 13:35:39

I would say that’s a hostile work environment. Among many other things ...

Agree. They shouldn't even be asking for volunteers.

koshkat Sat 30-Nov-19 13:37:17

Lush has been a place to avoid for quite some time now. No great hardship for me as I think that their stuff is nasty tat anyway.

MockersFactCheckMN Sat 30-Nov-19 13:37:23

...You didn't volunteer for the voluntary event?

What shall we put in your appraisal? "Not a team player....?"

lilypainter Sat 30-Nov-19 14:38:59

There’s volunteering and volunteering though, isn’t there?

An employer asking staff to “volunteer” for a work event during work time is the sort of scenario where staff may feel unable to say no for fear of negative consequences.

KatvonHostileExtremist Sat 30-Nov-19 15:40:11

I used to buy loads from lush. Admittedly I did have to be careful their products didn't upset my vag. Then the arrogance of their police thing. I know the undercover police did awful things to women, but lush campaign was badly handled.

Lush are the wokest of the woke.
Trans media watch seems to focus on shutting down debate. Leading light of everything is transphobic.
Nice of lush to fundraise for them.

Judashascomeintosomemoney Sat 30-Nov-19 15:49:15

Customers were encouraged to kiss the staffs body to leave a lipstick print...which was of coursed abused by some men
I rarely have a wtf moment because not much surprises me anymore, but, wtf?

Mumfun Sat 30-Nov-19 15:57:03

I was warned off their stuff. Then I was asked by a friend to help out raising money for a local womens charity (not woke and knows what a woman is) They were supported by Lush and the branch that hosted us were really lovely and very supportive. So they are prepared to raise money for a non woke women's charity

RoyalCorgi Sat 30-Nov-19 16:00:35

This thread from someone who worked in Lush really put me off the company. Nowhere near as ethical as they portray themselves:

ScrimshawTheSecond Sat 30-Nov-19 16:03:12

Just watched a few seconds of that 'torture' video linked above, it was all I could stomach.

This company is utterly abhorrent. I had no idea, just thought their products stank. Naked staff and torture videos. So edgy.

Don't think I can say much more without being very sweary.

PassingIntoTheWest Sat 30-Nov-19 16:39:41

I suspected that Lush weren't quite as environmental as they made out, and I remember their poorly judge protest about the police etc. And the staff just pester you non-stop. I like their shampoo bars, but I'm out now too 🙂.

TheProdigalKittensReturn Sat 30-Nov-19 16:44:16

Apparently they pester you all the time because management shout at them if they don't. Also WTF with the having the doors open all the time?

FannyCann Sat 30-Nov-19 17:02:06

I'll never find the thread but a while ago someone posted about having to do some sort of staff H&s assessment for a Lush employee who identified as a pony and wore a tail. confused

AutumnRose1 Sat 30-Nov-19 17:31:28

It was the Plane Stupid stuff that pissed me off and I don’t even travel.

This is 11 years ago

GrumpyGran8 Sat 30-Nov-19 21:52:59

Trans Media Watch are a charity dedicated to improving media coverage of trans and intersex issues.
So, yet another bunch of TRAs using the medical issues of intersex people to validate their beliefs.

Like lots of you here, the awful pong of their shops has always put me off and I can't imagine it's good for the shop assistants. This is just one more reason wo avoid them.

OhHolyJesus Sat 30-Nov-19 22:20:21

As PPs say Lush is on my boycott list and has been for some time.

They use palm oil (SLS) and have a palm oil free range but they say sometimes you just have to use it. You don't. It's just a cheap ingredient. They are honest in their labelling though.

I did hear about them using footage from an animal charity they declined to support and then didn't credit them or donate. Can't remember the details but it appeared to be that they are not what they seem.

And yes the mermaids money and the police campaign is weird, even if you put aside the blatant misogyny and bullying.

Much better plastic free products online and delivered in paper/cardboard. DM for details if you're looking for an alternative, I don't sell anything I've just been avoiding Lush for a loooooong time.

seantheheretic Sat 30-Nov-19 22:53:53

@OhHolyJesus I tried Lush for plastic-free packaging hair stuff and their products were awful.

NotsoLushnowarewe Sat 30-Nov-19 23:28:25

I did like their stuff once, but have been boycotting them for a good while already due to the combination of:
-Leaning more about how staff are treated, especially female staff, such as the lipstick kissing thing (a bad idea all round, but must have been particularly horrendous for anyone who's suffered abuse for example)
- Their Twitter account insisting on referring to women as "cis", and then doubling down on it when challenged by women who pointed out they found it offensive
-Supporting Mermaids.
I never did get round to writing them a letter to tell them why though, so I must try to get that done (not much point boycotting if they don't know that I am and why!).

7thlevelofthecandycaneforest Sat 30-Nov-19 23:35:21

Lush is the only shop I actively avoid. Used to like their products but they lost me with their advertising campaign nonsense a long time ago. Preachy bastards.

PreseaCombatir Sat 30-Nov-19 23:47:15

So, yet another bunch of TRAs using the medical issues of intersex people to validate their beliefs

The thing is, atm intersex people are arguing to be left out of it, but the younger ones will grown up being fully indoctrinated

HerFemaleness Sun 01-Dec-19 02:17:00

Lush fell yonks ago.


SheilaBruce Sun 01-Dec-19 03:38:44

I thought you meant the shops were closing and I would no longer have to encounter the stench in a particular stretch of the shopping centre. Ahhh, well, we can all hope can't we?

Mummyoflittledragon Sun 01-Dec-19 03:55:05

I was also hoping you meant they’d gone bust...

ASimpleLampoon Sun 01-Dec-19 06:10:27

@puds11 Don't educate yourself on trans issues on Mumsnet, look at other sources for a balanced view. There is a disgusting amount of prejudice allowed on Mumsnet against trans people, I have no idea why it is tolerated. Mumsnet has its uses, and can be a good resource, but for some reason hatred towards trans people is allowed (and to autistic/people with asperger's too, but that's a whole other thread)

DickKerrLadies Sun 01-Dec-19 06:44:42

Hatred towards trans people is not allowed, see the FWR talk guidelines pinned at the top of the board.

But being trans doesn't mean that someone is unable to be criticised - even the royal family aren't off-limits on MN! That would be silly.

Definitely read the words of transwomen though because it does provide an education. If you have questions, it can be tricky to get answers to them on MN - I asked an OP what they meant by 'female gender' the other day and I'm still waiting for a response!

Doidoit19 Sun 01-Dec-19 06:59:48

Lost any minor interest I had in them after the anti police campaign. Havent been in since and never will again.

Gardai Sun 01-Dec-19 07:03:06

Not true @ASimpleLampoon
Discussion is encouraged - not shut down here (as would be preferred by a certain section of the community).
That argument has been done many many times before, every time.
Women have a right to speak, get over it.

OhHolyJesus Sun 01-Dec-19 07:36:02

@seantheheretic I agree, I didn't find them very good value for money either. I've since found many cheaper, palm oil and plastic free alternatives but I can't list them all here. Hope you have found what you need.

ASimpleLampoon Sun 01-Dec-19 08:01:10


If I were trans, I would not want to discuss anything to do with trans issues on Mumsnet. There are mumsnet members who are so anti trans, they refer to their stance in their user names. This indicates to me that there are people here who are members of mumsnet to push a single issue. the site has been targeted with people who have an agenda, and it has mostly worked.

Trans people would not stick around for very long, since these people who are here only one reason are here specifically to abuse them.

Effectively trans people are shut down from mumsnet, and anti trans agitators are given free reign.

Pityparty4one Sun 01-Dec-19 08:17:12


I have been on MN for around 6 years and in that time I have seen 1000s of trans posts very few which express hatred of trans people the majority are concerned with female rights, safety and children.

There are trans people who post on here and have done for years so clearly trans people do stick around.

As for abuse I am afraid you will need to expand on that because it seems abuse of trans people can be me saying I believe humans cannot change sex.

Is it anti trans to say males are not female?
Is it anti trans to say males should not compete in female sports?
Is it anti trans to express concern that children are not receiving the correct support and are encouraged to make life changing decisions?
Is it anti trans to point out the aggression and violence directed at women from trans rights supporters?

DickKerrLadies Sun 01-Dec-19 08:23:49

This indicates to me that there are people here who are members of mumsnet to push a single issue.

There's loads of people on MN like that. It's a big site. But many of the posters on FWR post all over MN, on a range of topics. In FWR, the people who come to push a single issue tend to be the people who openly admit on twitter to trolling us.

And as I've said many times, if people think the posters on FWR are abusive, they haven't spent enough time in AIBU.

hallohallohallo Sun 01-Dec-19 08:38:26

Customers were encouraged to kiss the staffs body to leave a lipstick print...which was of coursed abused by some men.

shock Well that's me gone now. I did like one of their Christmas scents, but from what I've been reading recently Lush isn't as ethical as they appear and they are far too pushy with their views which ironically seem to largely go against what I would have imagined would have been their targert customer group (women).

Goodbye Lush!

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily Sun 01-Dec-19 08:51:22

There will always be posters like ASimpleLampoon, who will pop up to warn posters away from FWR and try to encourage them to woke sites. There are also those that have FWR under full time surveillance, that will swoop in to deter curious posters, but I’m really confused about how placid they think these posters are. They must think that by shouting transphobe and saying that FWR equals bad women, the new posters will run away.

I’d would certainly advise new posters to read what trans people say, especially on twitter. However I would recommend that they read up on the issues on FWR first, so they're going onto Twitter with a grounding in how trans ‘rights’ is being pushed at the expense of women’s rights, dignity and safety.

P.s lush is a misogynistic stinking cesspool that treats female staff in particular as if they own them.

littlecabbage Sun 01-Dec-19 09:01:42


Welcome to the FWR boards. I see that you have already been directed to the useful Break It Down For Me thread.

I also see that ASimpleLampoon is trying to paint the women here as "anti-trans" or "transphobic", which is simply not true. None of us wish any harm to people who genuinely have dysphoria - a condition where they feel that their is something seriously wrong with their healthy body. But we do not share their belief that a person can be born into the wrong body.

Unfortunately, any empathy that women here used to have for these "old school transsexuals" (those with genuine dysphoria) has been taken advantage of by the many males who now fall under the "trans umbrella". This is a definition created by Stonewall, the LGBT lobby group (who seem to be mainly trans-focussed now), and includes anyone who crossdresses. This means that "autogynephiles" (men who dress in female clothing because it sexually excites them) are now classified as "transgender".

There are many, many issues relating to the concerns of gender-critical women when it comes to transgenderism, but to summarise three of the main ones:

1) Trans rights groups are lobbying hard to remove female-only spaces. These are actually protected by the Equality Act 2010, but companies all over the UK are being coerced into allowing any male who simply states that he "identifies as a woman" that day to enter these spaces. The problem with this is that you cannot tell who is one of the tiny percentage of men with genuine dysphoria, and who is a sexual predator.

Male rapists have been allowed into women's prisons, and sexually assaulted female inmates. Sexual offences by men against women have drastically increased in mixed-sex changing rooms. Men have been allowed to share rooms with women in rape crisis centres. There are many further examples on these boards.

2) Men are taking away positions that should be for women. Google Pips Bunce, a male who swings between dressing as male one day and female the next, who won an award for "top women in business". Men are entering women's sports and taking their titles. Google Rachel Mckinnon, a transgender cyclist who won the women's masters track cycling world championships, or Maxine Blythin, a transgender cricketer playing on a women's team in Kent.

3) Children are being taught that they can "be born in the wrong body", and referred to begin puberty-blocking drugs and then cross-sex hormones, with very little exploration of why they may be feeling uncomfortable with their bodies. Many of these children are actually gay, autistic or have a history of sexual abuse, and these issues are not being investigated.

These children are being offered medication and surgery that will have lifelong effects, and will effectively sterilise them, with very little long term research into the consequences.

There is so much more I could write, but I would encourage you to keep reading these FWR threads, and make up your own mind. I suspect you will be come as horrified by the whole thing as the rest of us. Please keep asking questions - we want to expose this ideology for the danger it poses to women and children.

puds11 Sun 01-Dec-19 09:41:09

Thank you @littlecabbage this is very informative. I have a lot to learn! I did see the information about the prison rape on a board yesterday and was shocked by both the situation and having missed the information in the news.

Can I ask more about your view on people not being able to be born into the wrong body? This is one of the terms I hear a lot as to why trans people undergo transition.

I do feel the relative ease with which children are allowed to transition is scary. I can’t help but think there will be regrets later down the line.

I’ll have a look into the names you have mentioned here. This is very illuminating!

Thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate it.

Pityparty4one Sun 01-Dec-19 10:00:14

Can I ask more about your view on people not being able to be born into the wrong body?

I know you didn't direct this at me but I would like to answer.

How can you be born in the wrong body unless you believe in souls?
My cousin has cerebral pasly I am sure she has wanted to be born in the wrong body but in truth it's her body whether it should be or not does not matter.

We are trying to teach the next generation about acceptance of others but it seems when it comes to trans people we ignore acceptence of themselves and run with the whole "oh yes your body is wrong let's take drugs and have surgery to correct your wrong body".
I believe being trans is not a body issue it is an issue with the mind and like any other form of mental health issue it is the mind that needs support and treatment not the body.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Sun 01-Dec-19 10:12:36

Lush went waayyyy way ago.

Cuteypye Sun 01-Dec-19 10:26:05

@littlecabbage Thank you for that information, I too have a lot to learn.

I don’t think I can say I’m boycotting Lush over things like this, because that could imply I used to use their products! Like ScrimshawTheSecond I can’t make it past the “industrial strength perfume barrier.”

Rather than being Lush, it should be renamed Boaking.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Sun 01-Dec-19 10:53:52

This and the police promo that was supposed the be publicising undercover police having relationships with unsuspecting women - but it looked like an horribly anti police statement.

If I want to buy soap I want to buy soap... not get a bloody dogma rammed down my throat.

Body shop don’t support stonewall any more (just sayin).

And their staff are way over aggressive and stuff stinks - dyes your bath and once even dyed DS blue. Don’t get me started on the glitter in your...

WomanBornNotWorn Sun 01-Dec-19 10:56:28


So much of what I've read suggests that trans people may be dealing with some deep PTSD such as abuse and internalised homophobia, leading them to reject themselves in pursuit of an impossible new identity.

Having autism seems to play a role too - a child who found social interaction difficult might find their body changing, bits hurting, producing 'stuff', getting baffling and unwanted looks, comments and touches is the thing that sends them over the edge.

My view is that enabling a troubled mind to damage a healthy body is the wrong path.

Guiding and supporting the troubled mind to healing and accepting their physical reality is to me the way to go.

I think parents, teachers, and the medical profession would be best working together to explore the cause rather than facilitate the effect, and help that understanding, education and healing process to happen.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD Sun 01-Dec-19 10:58:47

Promoting press stories isn’t the way then. Additional support via charities - but then stonewall has had an income of £72m over the past 20 years and mermaids coins it in. Isn’t that enough?

And this is a PR promo in itself. Pushing the absolutism of twaw.

KatvonHostileExtremist Sun 01-Dec-19 11:05:53

Mumsnet has its uses, and can be a good resource, but for some reason hatred towards trans people is allowed (and to autistic/people with asperger's too, but that's a whole other thread)

Oh that's a new accusation. Hatred towards people with ASD? Do start a thread. I'd say the opposite actually but I'm very keen to see the "evidence"


SmallCalpolFiend Sun 01-Dec-19 11:33:01

I just want to echo what @ASimpleLampoon has said, as I think a lot of people on this site are at best misinformed when it comes to trans issues. I would be careful about taking what is said here at face value.

For example, there are a number of things stated above that I don't believe are true:

- Stonewall don't classify anyone who cross-dresses as trans
- Trans groups aren't lobbying to remove female-only spaces
- It's not that easy for children to get medical help to transition, or even delay puberty

And in the meantime:
- Trans young people are overwhelmingly likely to self-harm, and something like 40% have attempted suicide
- Trans people often do display high levels of mental illness, but these often decrease significantly when they are supported and accepted
- Trans women are at a higher risk of abuse, including sexual abuse, than other women are

I imagine that what I've said might be quite contentious to a number of people here, but if you're someone who's looking for information, then perhaps bear in mind that what you'll usually see here will be very much an extreme end of opinion. Maybe read a bit wider if you want to have a more balanced view.

PanicAndRun Sun 01-Dec-19 11:36:08


T0tallyFuckedUpFamily Sun 01-Dec-19 11:45:14

SmallCalpolFiend of course you’re going to provide the links to the evidence to back up all your —lies— comments.

SmallCalpolFiend Sun 01-Dec-19 11:52:51


Nope. Mostly because the things I'm refuting don't have links to the evidence either. And the point I'm making is that you shouldn't believe all that you read on Mumsnet, and you should do your own reading elsewhere. If people do that and I'm telling "lies", then they'll find that out.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily Sun 01-Dec-19 11:55:41

So there’s no evidence then? Thought so.

7Worfs Sun 01-Dec-19 12:02:22

Re the ‘born in the wrong body’ thing -

anorexics also believe there is something wrong with their body, but no one is encouraging them to keep extreme dieting and offering them NHS-funded liposuction!

littlbrowndog Sun 01-Dec-19 12:05:34

How are TW at higher risk of abuse than women ?

2 women are murdered every week

86000 sexual assaults every year if I rember

1 rape every day in Uk schools

The 40% suicide statistics has been debunked as not credible

Why would you want to stop puberty in children. It’s so important
The drugs used to stop it are untested for that usage

koshkat Sun 01-Dec-19 12:12:02

Calpol you have just proven that you understand very little about what is happening here.

Just because you do not believe it does not mean that it is not true.

koshkat Sun 01-Dec-19 12:13:08

Trans women are at a higher risk of abuse, including sexual abuse, than other women are

'Other women'? Transwomen are men who think that they are women. Women are women. HTH.

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