It’s official; Marks and Spencer have fallen, the sequel.......

[MrsSnippyPants]

First thread getting full and and I continue to be interested in responses received to people’s emails and store visits.

[MrsSnippyPants]

Excellent email Raindrops17

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

I'd still quite like that genderist to English translation if said genderists are going to continue frothing at us.

I'm also curious to see if at some point M&S might send someone a response that isn't a template.

[MrsSnippyPants]

I’m going to wait until Monday to email them, in the hope that some grown ups might be in the office.

[RufusthebewiIderedreindeer]

Good luck with that kittens

Im full of optimism for you!

[Karabair]

I’d also like to know why sissification fantasies aren’t perversions.

I’m kind of hating Marks and Spencers now for making me type out sissification.

[SirVixofVixHall]

Me too.

[RufusthebewiIderedreindeer]

Im not really

I dont think you have a cat in hells chance...no offence

[HandsOffMyRights]

I've just had the stock response. Whenever I see the word "inclusive" I think of the Posie Parker video where she talks of exclusion of women.

Way to go M&S. Well chosen initials there because you this is backwards.

[WrathofSlxfootSixElfKlop]

Overall it is such a bad and uninformed decision by M&S.
I will be watching the outcome with interest.

How to upset your customers with one careless decision.

[HandsOffMyRights]

Ignore the you in the above sentence (just like Marks ignored the us).

[MrsSnippyPants]

Previous thread here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3731834-Its-official-Marks-and-Spencer-have-fallen?pg=1

[pombear]

I'm not even using the pervert word. I'm just going to type calmly out again.

Tara Hewitt, a trans advisor, clearly stated that trans includes:

people that festishistically cross-dress, so they wear clothing to get a sexual desire out of that clothing of the opposite gender. Generally associated with men wearing women's underwear, erm, and women's clothing

Men with a fetish = trans = transpeople.

We're not dim. A man with a fetish , getting a sexual desire out of wearing women's clothes - and some of them are not going to want to extend that fetish to public use of changing rooms/women as props? Which has now been pretty much endorsed by M & S policy?

To those on this thread calling women on this issue transphobic, please tell me why women should be enthusiastically welcoming this group of transpeople into their changing rooms?

[TheProdigalKittensReturn]

Also, again, the M&S statement didn't say that transpeople could use whichever fitting room they prefer, it said that anyone could. Reading is fundamental!

[AnyOldPrion]

Maybe M&S would enjoy a clip from Tara’s video, pom. Information from the horse’s mouth, so to speak. After all, we’re only women and our word doesn’t count.

[Wheat2Harvest]

Maybe someone can explain why, in schools, the staff and children don't share toilets?

Is it because both groups would feel uncomfortable sharing, and that male staff would feel uncomfortable being in a toilet with five-year-old girls?

So why is it OK for women to feel uncomfortable sharing toilets and changing rooms with men who claim to be 'trans'?

[realitycalling]

M & S have set their sights on the rainbow £££ - it obviously didn't occur to them that women wouldn't be happy with having bras fitted next to men who are "more comfortable using women's changing rooms". Speaking to women rather than Stonewall might have helped with that.

If there are lots of turkeys and lingerie sitting on their shelves at Christmas and enough women / families cancel accounts, move insurance, bank accounts etc then presumably they'll act - implement the sensible third spaces a la Centre Parks. There are a lot of women who have taken the trouble to post on here having emailed and who are cancelling accounts etc. But it needs to translate into a significant dip in revenue - although the negative publicity about failing to respect and safeguard women and children is never a good look for a major brand.

[Butterisbest]

There are some posters on here that must have some sort of unheard of signal, oh fuck, is that what dog whistle means!
That brings them out from under their misogynistic safety zone to engage with all these shocking transphobic posters on FWR.
I might be hiding in shame that I didn't get the dog whistle reference.

[pombear]

Any - that might be an idea.

Though, to be honest, the woke blokes in the M & S office may view the whole film, hear how Tara explains at 18.45 that there is likely to be additional effect for a transwoman who has to have a mastectomy than a, you know, bog-standard woman - they may just instigate extra training for their bra fitters.

(NB: I am not dismissing the impact of cancer on any person, but to suggest that the impact of a mastectomy on a transwoman should be considered as greater? )

[Raindrops17]

Thanks @MrsSnippyPants, and for starting a second thread. Will post when I get my (stock) reply.

[FeminineWiles]

Raindrops, that was a very direct email, I hope that wakes them up! Although not in a woke sense. Not sure what is wrong with me today - I tried about five versions of that sentence and all sounded weird.

[holidays987]

I posted a message to M&S on the comments & feedback bit of their website yesterday. Not sure that was the right place to do it. Have seen some people emailed directly. No reply as yet.

I only wanted to throw my two cents in.. that the safety, comfort and opinion of women and girls matters too. Sometimes the comfort of a small minority of individuals shouldn't be held in higher regard than that of the majority. And we shouldn't have to 'adapt' and compromise our own security to accommodate all. 🙁 I hate this issue. I don't want any vulnerable people to be upset but unisex / self-ID entry is a bad idea and affects a lot more people.

[YourOpinionIsNoted]

Too late for me to compose my reply now (got distracted by a stranger things marathon). Thinking of waiting til Monday in the hope of getting a grown up on the other end.

Also thinking of the merits of leaflets in the changing rooms. As pp mentioned on the previous thread, a large number of m&s customers are older, retirees, less likely to be on twitter and Mumsnet etc. I think if m&s are going to stand by this policy then their customers should know about it.

[realitycalling]

Good point YourOpinionisNoted M & S need to clearly label all their changing rooms 'mixed sex' (including their lingerie changing rooms) so nobody is deceived into believing that they are in a single sex space.

[Sparklfairy]

I should point out that Target have taken fuck all action despite the huge rise in incidents since implementing this policy

onenewsnow.com/business/2019/08/28/afa-target-continues-doing-nothing-to-prevent-voyeurism

So M&S bleating that they will deal with incidents as and when they occur is bollocks