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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kathleen Stock on academic freedom

105 replies

BeansandRice · 03/07/2019 15:43

Academics and freedom of speech

I'm reading this and literally shaking. My story is in there - one of so many - I didn't realise there are so many women who've had to go through what I went through.

It is very scary, reading how many feminists (I'm not going to add "gender critical" as gender critical is what feminism is ) have been shut down, doxxed, and faced with students (and sometimes not even students) attempts to get them sacked.

Thanks to @DocStockk for collecting them, and continuing to speak out.

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arranbubonicplague · 03/07/2019 16:15

I'm only partway through and I'm horrified at what this represents for the unimpeded progress of totalitarianism in our institutions.

HerFemaleness · 03/07/2019 16:30

Wow. I'm not one to throw out the word fascism. It's used far too frequently to describe people who aren't even remotely fascist. But this forcing through of an ideology. Persecution of those who disagree with the ideology. Suppression of research and study which could contradict this ideology. Mandatory training to indoctrinate on this ideology. It all seems a bit fascist to me. Shock

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 16:44

That was a chilling read.

Kathleen Stock and all these academics are courageous individuals. And yes HerFemaleness, for once, facism is an appropriate description of this bullying and intimidatory movement.

To say thank you for standing up to this frightening level of fear and intimidation seems trite - but thank you Flowers - all of you.

OvaHere · 03/07/2019 16:45

Incredibly eye opening accounts. It's horrifying what is currently happening in our institutions.

Mermoose · 03/07/2019 16:45

My god. This is awful. Has anyone shown it to Caroline Dodds Pennock? I wonder if she has the integrity required to acknowledge it.

R0wantrees · 03/07/2019 16:46

Flowers Beans

Its chilling reading even being aware from the outside of the nature of transactivism in UK universities.

I really struggle to understand how the so obvious parallel censorial movements are not recognised immediately by those with ultimate responsibility in universities.
Have they missed history, politics & literature jumping instead to MBAs?

Goosefoot · 03/07/2019 16:54

I am so disheartened by what is going on at universities.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 03/07/2019 16:56

It is a horrifying read.

R0wantrees · 03/07/2019 17:02

This needs to go to Chris Skidmore, Minister of State for Universities, Science, Research and Innovation

www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state-for-universities-science-research-and-innovation

Last year (May 2018) his predecessor, Sam Gyimah first statement in post was about the requirement of universities to protect & promote academic freedom.

(extract)
"Sam Gyimah, the universities minister, will announce tough guidance on the issue at a meeting today, calling attempts to silence debate “chilling”.

He will accuse some student societies of “institutional hostility” to certain unfashionable but perfectly lawful views. A “murky” legal landscape, with guidance from various regulators, lets zealots censor those with whom they disagree, Mr Gyimah will say."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sam-gyimah-crackdown-on-students-silencing-free-speech-x28jx85fc

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3239267-Free-Speech-No-Platforming-at-Universities

Aspley · 03/07/2019 17:10

That is a horrifying read.
It's very worrying that universities are unable to support their staff.
Small groups of vindictive students should never be able to dominate the narrative this way.
University is supposed to be a place for challenging ideas and proper (educated) debate not a place for intolerant minorites to harass staff for holding very valid opinions.

FermatsTheorem · 03/07/2019 17:37

Yes, horrifying is absolutely the word.

Dear students of today: 1984/ Wild Swans/ Darkness at Noon/ The First Circle were NOT meant to be read as instruction manuals.

I hope someone tweets a link of this to Janice Turner, James Kirkup, Hadley Freeman, etc.

And, as suggested upthread, sends it to the universities minister.

BeansandRice · 03/07/2019 17:43

Can someone else do it? I feel too exposed as it is (although nothing like Professors Stock, Freedman, and others).

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MockerstheFeManist · 03/07/2019 17:43

Moral of the story would seem to be: Twitter is messy play for narcissists and sociopaths, thus not a suitable venue for any professional presence. If you must go on it, do so anonymously.

BeansandRice · 03/07/2019 17:45

Thanks everyone for fellow-feeling. I'm going to have to NC again, but your support is really much felt and appreciated. (notice one of the stories name checks MN ? )

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Goosefoot · 03/07/2019 17:50

I wish it were possible to get some robust sense of numbers being affected in this way. These kinds of stories are compelling but not really great for that kind of analysis. I can't help but feel that numbers would be useful in making a case that there is a problem but I can't see how they would be collected.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 17:51

How many do you need Goosefoot before acknowledging there's a problem?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 03/07/2019 17:54

I don't think quantitative information is necessary when it's the kind of thing where even a single case will have an intimidating effect on everyone working in the area.

FermatsTheorem · 03/07/2019 18:04

It's the principle of the thing. Either an institution has academic freedom or it does not. One case is one too many.

JackyHolyoake · 03/07/2019 18:14

What a truly shocking state of affairs !

Perhaps our Higher Education sector needs to make itself aware of the EHRC guidance?

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/higher-education-providers-guidance

R0wantrees · 03/07/2019 18:14

I wish it were possible to get some robust sense of numbers being affected in this way. These kinds of stories are compelling but not really great for that kind of analysis

No, each one of them is significant cause for investigation & serious high level concern in itself.
That there are a number still demonstrating the same patterns at different UK universities is sufficient evidence especially in light of the May 2018 public statement by UK Minister for Universities.

Anlaf · 03/07/2019 18:15

HOLY SHIT

R0wantrees · 03/07/2019 18:18

Moral of the story would seem to be: Twitter is messy play for narcissists and sociopaths, thus not a suitable venue for any professional presence

Moral of the story is that Universities are acting as narcissists' 'flying monkeys' and should cease & desist from this.

Their failure to respond appropriately to bullying of staff, unreasonable demands & vexacious complaints means they are failing in their Duty of Care to both staff & students.

Goosefoot · 03/07/2019 18:20

How many do you need Goosefoot before acknowledging there's a problem?

Oh, goodness. Things that happen in isolated instances or rarely or limited to particular places are in fact different kinds of problems than things that are widespread. It is a totally different situation if there was only one university with a problem than if it is widespread across academia. Your comment is specious.

I know its a widespread problem because I'm involved in universities. I also know enough about how committees and governments work to think they like numbers, and that people who are not directly involved find it so difficult to believe they are inclined to think anecdotes are about rare instances, or at least aren't common occurrences. Not to mention that you can bet the TRAs will give all kinds of supposedly scientific numbers to support their view.

If there is no way to get that information, there isn't, nothing to be done and we have to live with it. I'm not sure why you want to get self-righteous about it being mentioned at all though.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/07/2019 18:30

If you're involved in universities Goosefoot then I'm sure you'll know lots about this and have easy access to find out any further information. I know these courageous individuals will look forward to seeing you stand alongside them.

Manderleyagain · 03/07/2019 18:37

I agree with goosefoot that an idea of numbers would be extremely useful as well as the powerful individual stories. Not least because those who are trying to keep these discussions closed claim that it's only a tiny number of people, and at the moment there is little evidence to the contrary that we can point to.

I think an independent body such as index on censorship should do a piece of research to try and assess the scale and nature of this. They were asking for anyone who's employer restricts their expression online to contact them (jodie ginsberg tweet 26/6 sorry can't link online.)i think it was in response to the asda worker being sacked for sharing a bit of a Billy connelly routine on fb, but all those academics who fear giving their opinion online could contact them.

Another way would be if the key 'out' gc academics counted up those who have contacted them but don't speak out.

This is excellent work by Stock, and all the contributers.

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