James Kirkup: Coffee House Is it now a crime to like a poem about transgenderism?

[TimeLady]

James seems hopping mad.....

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/is-it-now-a-crime-to-like-a-poem-about-transgenderism/

This is, of course, a story about Twitter, and transgenderism. Miller says he was interviewed by the police and warned about his ‘thinking’ because he had used his Twitter account to express opinions about transgenderism and the law as it applies to gender.

Mr Miller says "This is where it gets incredibly sinister. The cop told me that he needed to speak with me because, even though I’d committed no crime whatsoever, he needed (and I quote) ‘to check my THINKING!’ Seriously. Honestly.

"Finally, he lectured me. Said, ‘Sometimes, a woman’s brain grows a man’s body in the womb and that is what transgender is.’ You can imagine my response…"

current thread about the 'hate crime' accusation:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3487853-Harry-the-owl-visited-by-police

I dislike that poem quite a bit, actually, given that it's aimed at 'old-school' post-surgery transsexuals rather than the massively over-privileged transgenderites.

Or is it? Hmm. Come to think of it, it mentions breasts and 'vagina' but not an absence of penis, so could be targeting, say, the Fragrant 7-inch Surprise person.

"oblige them to record anything that a complainant perceives to be motivated by hatred of people because of a protected characteristic. That can mean race, age, disability or gender reassignment."
What about sex?

"He said he would be passing my answers on to the complainant. I told him to tell that person I would gladly talk to them, that I’d like to take them out to dinner so we could have a conversation about this. I’d explain that I am a strong supporter of the 2010 Equality Act, and explain my concerns about possible reforms of the Gender Recognition Act and how that could affect legal rights for women."

That would be nice wouldn't it. If we could all sit down and discuss this like intelligent humans. Sadly, some of us believe dialogue is literal violence and that we should call the cops instead of challenging those we disagree with. What the hell has happened. I remember as young activist in the 80s regularly having robust debates with those opposed to me. Has nobody got a spine anymore.

not opposed to me but on opposite side of the issue yadayada

I dislike that poem quite a bit, actually, given that it's aimed at 'old-school' post-surgery transsexuals rather than the massively over-privileged transgenderites.

important thread which demonstrates the historical truth of trans rights' activism:

AngryAttackKittens comment "I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Apologies about a second thread. I must admit I hadn't ventured into the Harry the Owl one..

If they are going to pass the responses on to the complainant I’d include a Fuck Off or two.

The poem itself is irrelevant. It is not the police's job to tell people what they can and can't "like"!

august, do you not remember that they considered including sex in the hate crimes, but decided not to. Too much work perhaps? Have to pay attention to what is literally happening to women rather than literal thought crimes?

I bet I can guess the complainant. A certain individual who identifies as a lawyer?

No, of course it isn't the police's job to tell people what they are allowed to like. I still dislike the poem. It's mocking the genuinely dysphoric as well as the activists.

CroneInAMillion twitter thread:
twitter.com/CroneInAMillion/status/1082770527310278656
‏
"Well there's a thing. Because I filed a FOI Request to see who was involved in writing the police's National Trans Tool Kit. I found out it actually wasn't written by the police at all!

It was supplied by lobbying group Stonewall, then released without proper checks.

For those who missed it, in Nov 2018, the police released a hugely biased document that incorrectly advised all police forces that misgendering is a hate crime. Scarily, it implied that rejecting gender ideology/wrong body theory is also considered a hate crime.

However, they have left in other points of clear bias. For example, rejecting gender ideology/wrong body theory would still fall under the definition of transphobia.
‏
Freedom of Thought (and by extension disbelief) is protected under the Human Rights Act 1998, article 9. Trans people do have a right to believe they are literally the opposite sex but they have no right to compel this belief in other people.
‏
Seeing the police take a surprisingly controversial stance made me keen to investigate who exactly this definition had come from. So I submitted a Freedom of Information request to Surrey Police to find out. I received the following answer:

"The information that we hold is that the trans toolkit came from Stonewall. We do not hold any other information regarding this request other than it was ‘signed off’ by NPCC."

NPCC = National Police Chiefs' Council; a national co-ordinating body for law enforcement in the UK

We have to ask why lobbying groups are being allowed to write guidance and policy documents for the police and prison services. What is going on here? This can not be right."

Excellent stuff, Kirkup.

"This is, of course, a story about Twitter, and transgenderism."

So a butterfly flaps it’s wings ‘down south’ and he owl get a visit from the police.

A woman is raped or threatened and...

Something is very fishy about the mollycoddling and bubble wrap approach to ‘hate crimes’ (and by this I mean questioning or refuting the TWAW stance).

When did the police bother so much when an ethnic minority person was insured/harassed/threatened? Actually, when did such people go to the police on a daily basis for every comment or stupid question

We have to ask why lobbying groups are being allowed to write guidance and policy documents for the police and prison services. What is going on here? This can not be right.

This should be happening.

Love the Spectator comments that as well as thinking liking a tweet shouldn't be a hate crime recognise the "limerick" is awful so compose lots of better ones. I like the poetry/prose competition at the back of the Spectator each week. James knows his audience here.

Missing the point entirely, but how can that poem be described as a Limerick?

I find it weird that all this hate crime stuff is being pushed by the Tories. It's the sort of stuff the Tories would have gleefully criticised as "loony left nonsense" if Ken Livingston's GLC had promoted it
Why are no MPs and ministers telling the police to focus on actual crime?

I would love to know if any of the major BAME, disability or minority faith organisations are experiencing the same attentiveness of the police when someone calls to complain about racist tweets, disablist tweets or anti-Semitic tweets

🤔

I didn’t realise that a lobotomy was part of the criteria for entering the police force

Why are no MPs and ministers telling the police to focus on actual crime?

The news today has been reporting on the increase is 'high impact' crime, this will overwhelmingly have been committes by males:

"Violent crime recorded by police in England and Wales has risen by 19% in a year, latest Home Office figures show.

The number of homicides - including murder and manslaughter - rose from 649 to 739, an increase of 14%, in the 12 months to the end of September 2018.

It is the the highest total for such crimes since 2007.

Robbery went up by 17%, as did recorded sexual offences, according to the data released by the Office for National Statistics (ONS)."

www.bbc.com/news/uk-46984559

I would love to know if any of the major BAME, disability or minority faith organisations are experiencing the same attentiveness of the police when someone calls to complain about racist tweets, disablist tweets or anti-Semitic tweets

So would I. And if not, why not.

I mean, a good reason why not.