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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dame Jenni Murray's book, 'A History of Britain in 21 Women' a "polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women." Shouldn't we join her as this is happening now, to her?

57 replies

R0wantrees · 08/11/2018 13:03

The reasons that Jenni Murray wrote this book are important:

"Dame Jenni's talk is a polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women, on the very week Millicent Fawcett’s statue was unveiled on parliament square.

Jenni began writing her a book ‘A History of Britain in 21 Women’ in 2015 after learning that the women’s movement might be erased from the A level history curriculum.

Her lecture is a whirlwind tour of some of the books more colourful characters – from Boadicea to the Iron Lady, Elizabeth I to Ethel Smith, featuring personal anecdotes (interviewing Thatcher after her deposition) and offering fascinating insight into some of suffrage’s lesser known stories (suffragette cricket lessons for more accomplished brick throwing).'

lecture accompanying her book:

Yet this week some Oxford students have harrassed her and her lecture there has been cancelled:

Today's articles:
Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-s-hour-host-accused-of-transphobia-pulls-out-of-oxford-talk-k58pmbcgb?shareToken=05dedf9ff8b21cf1eaa21b75da46fbbd

Spectator:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/even-oxford-university-cant-save-jenni-murray-from-the-transgender-activist-mob/

Telegraph:
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/11/07/jenni-murray-pulls-oxford-talk-students-try-no-platform-transphobic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3416980-Oxford-students-going-after-Jenni-Murray-again

This was Jenni Murray's article written for the Sunday Times last year for which following protest, the BBC publically rebuked her:

'Be trans, be proud — but don’t call yourself a “real woman”
Can someone who has lived as a man, with all the privilege that entails, really lay claim to womanhood? It takes more than a sex change and make-up'

"The fury that a male-to-female transsexual could be so ignorant of the politics that have preoccupied women for centuries hit me again last year — 16 years after I had met Carol. This time I was speaking to another trans woman, India Willoughby, who had hit the headlines after appearing on the ITV programme Loose Women.

India held firmly to her belief that she was a “real woman”, ignoring the fact that she had spent all of her life before her transition enjoying the privileged position in our society generally accorded to a man. In a discussion about the Dorchester hotel’s demands that its female staff should always wear make-up, have a manicure and wear stockings over shaved legs, she was perfectly happy to go along with such requirements. There wasn’t a hint of understanding that she was simply playing into the stereotype — a man’s idea of what a woman should be.

We are taught as boys that assertiveness and aggression are good things. There’s a danger, even now, that I’ll act as a man. In a group of women I can become dominant
She described hairy legs on a woman as “dirty”. But hairy legs are not considered dirty in a man. Did she not know that the question of whether a woman should shave her legs or her a rmpits had been a topic of debate among women for an awfully long time? And that to describe a woman who chose not to shave as dirty was insulting and again suggested an ignorance of sexual politics?

Unsurprisingly, my polite and informed line of questioning exposed me to a barrage of criticism on social media. I was a Terf and didn’t understand what Simone de Beauvoir, the author of one of the great feminist tracts, The Second Sex, meant when she wrote: “One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman.”

As a matter of fact, I have understood perfectly what de Beauvoir meant ever since I read her as a teenage girl. Her subject was that “second sex”. She used the word sex advisedly.

Your sex, male or female, is what you’re born with and determines whether you’ll provide the sperm or the eggs in the reproductive process. What de Beauvoir was analysing was gendered socialisation.

In other words, the girl who grows into a woman goes through a lifetime of pressure to become the socially constructed idea of what a woman should be, regardless of her innate talents, abilities or ambitions. It’s what feminism has sought to challenge. She did not mean that an individual born into the male sex, socialised into the expectations of the masculine gender, can simply decide to take hormones and maybe have surgery and “become a woman”." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

Dame Jenni Murray's book, 'A History of Britain in 21 Women' a "polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women." Shouldn't we join her as this is happening now, to her?
OP posts:
WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 08/11/2018 13:08

What do you think we could do to support her ROwan?

NothingTraLaLa · 08/11/2018 13:09

I bought the book yesterday in support.

R0wantrees · 08/11/2018 13:17

WichBitchHarpyTerf Good question!

That as many people as possible understand the context is key I think.

This is about women's history and present day.
Women's rights.
Women being silenced, now as before.

OP posts:
WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 08/11/2018 13:21

Yes we could buy the book. I'm not on MSM so can't put the word out there but can reach into my hag purse!

LurkingWaspi · 08/11/2018 13:24

This is a wider issue I agree
Buying the book.
I want to hear her speak.
How can it be done?

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 08/11/2018 13:30

Open letter of support maybe? Just bought the book, thanks OP.

WomaninBoots · 08/11/2018 13:35

Just bought the book.

KatVonGulag · 08/11/2018 13:36

Just brought three copies. Marvellous Christmas pressies.

LangCleg · 08/11/2018 13:39

In addition to buying the book, you could put up a review on Amazon or Goodreads. A few sentences will do, but if you're not up to writing a review, you could just give it a star rating?

newmumwithquestions · 08/11/2018 13:42

I would like to hear her speak.

newmumwithquestions · 08/11/2018 13:47

And have just bought the book :-)

Threewheeler1 · 08/11/2018 13:50

Thanks R0wan.
Just bought 2 - one for me and one for my amazing niece, who'll be off to uni soon to study PPE, probably surrounded by some seriously privileged young men.
But she takes absolutely no prisoners and gives me a lot of hope.
Been supplying her with some fortifying texts before she heads off!

boldlygoingsomewhere · 08/11/2018 13:51

I’ve just bought the book in support.

Would love to hear her talk on this.

Mumfun · 08/11/2018 13:54

Just bought as Christmas present :)

Bookrat · 08/11/2018 13:56

Thanks for highlighting this OP. Two of my daughters do not see the point of body hair removal, so they don't do it. I admire them immensely for standing up to societal norms in a way that I do not. To hear them castigated as 'dirty' women by someone with no understanding of the situation was rage inducing. Jenni was wonderful in calling this out and I have now expressed my gratitude/support in a meaningful way. Book bought.

R0wantrees · 08/11/2018 13:58

She's speaking in other places.... its worth having a noodle about for her lecture!

OP posts:
SolidarityGdansk · 08/11/2018 14:03

I just downloaded the book as a small token of support

Mumfun · 08/11/2018 14:06

There are 2 books.

History of World in 21 Women is the new one

History of Britain in 21 Women was published a year ago.

Allycumpooster · 08/11/2018 14:10

Just bought the book. And posted about how great it is all over my Facebook Grin

Floisme · 08/11/2018 14:18

I’d love it if we could get the book into the best seller list. I’ll be buying several copies as Christmas presents.

And if anyone knows of any other speaking dates please could you post? Thanks.

WomaninBoots · 08/11/2018 14:22

Just bought the other book. Grin

silentcrow · 08/11/2018 14:29

A History of Britain... is really good, I hope you all enjoy it Smile weirdly my favourite chapter is the one on Thatcher. I hadn't realised she had a new one out - excellent, I wanted an excuse to go into towm tomorrow. If you can possibly use a physical bookseller rather than online, do so, especially if you have to ask for it - it creates that word-of-mouth buzz. If you're ordering online, leave a review on Amazon (and Goodreads if you're on there) - lots of reviews really helps the author, improves sales, and can create new print runs. And don't forget your library - use the reservation service or inter-library loans; again, authors get a small amount for each borrow and it raises the profile.

I wonder if we could incite another university or independent bookshop to host her in the name of free speech. Bet her fees aren't cheap, though...school visits from lesser-known children's authors are several hundred already.

nellieellie · 08/11/2018 15:31

Ordered the book just now.

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