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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dame Jenni Murray's book, 'A History of Britain in 21 Women' a "polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women." Shouldn't we join her as this is happening now, to her?

57 replies

R0wantrees · 08/11/2018 13:03

The reasons that Jenni Murray wrote this book are important:

"Dame Jenni's talk is a polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women, on the very week Millicent Fawcett’s statue was unveiled on parliament square.

Jenni began writing her a book ‘A History of Britain in 21 Women’ in 2015 after learning that the women’s movement might be erased from the A level history curriculum.

Her lecture is a whirlwind tour of some of the books more colourful characters – from Boadicea to the Iron Lady, Elizabeth I to Ethel Smith, featuring personal anecdotes (interviewing Thatcher after her deposition) and offering fascinating insight into some of suffrage’s lesser known stories (suffragette cricket lessons for more accomplished brick throwing).'

lecture accompanying her book:

Yet this week some Oxford students have harrassed her and her lecture there has been cancelled:

Today's articles:
Times
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/woman-s-hour-host-accused-of-transphobia-pulls-out-of-oxford-talk-k58pmbcgb?shareToken=05dedf9ff8b21cf1eaa21b75da46fbbd

Spectator:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/even-oxford-university-cant-save-jenni-murray-from-the-transgender-activist-mob/

Telegraph:
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2018/11/07/jenni-murray-pulls-oxford-talk-students-try-no-platform-transphobic/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3416980-Oxford-students-going-after-Jenni-Murray-again

This was Jenni Murray's article written for the Sunday Times last year for which following protest, the BBC publically rebuked her:

'Be trans, be proud — but don’t call yourself a “real woman”
Can someone who has lived as a man, with all the privilege that entails, really lay claim to womanhood? It takes more than a sex change and make-up'

"The fury that a male-to-female transsexual could be so ignorant of the politics that have preoccupied women for centuries hit me again last year — 16 years after I had met Carol. This time I was speaking to another trans woman, India Willoughby, who had hit the headlines after appearing on the ITV programme Loose Women.

India held firmly to her belief that she was a “real woman”, ignoring the fact that she had spent all of her life before her transition enjoying the privileged position in our society generally accorded to a man. In a discussion about the Dorchester hotel’s demands that its female staff should always wear make-up, have a manicure and wear stockings over shaved legs, she was perfectly happy to go along with such requirements. There wasn’t a hint of understanding that she was simply playing into the stereotype — a man’s idea of what a woman should be.

We are taught as boys that assertiveness and aggression are good things. There’s a danger, even now, that I’ll act as a man. In a group of women I can become dominant
She described hairy legs on a woman as “dirty”. But hairy legs are not considered dirty in a man. Did she not know that the question of whether a woman should shave her legs or her a rmpits had been a topic of debate among women for an awfully long time? And that to describe a woman who chose not to shave as dirty was insulting and again suggested an ignorance of sexual politics?

Unsurprisingly, my polite and informed line of questioning exposed me to a barrage of criticism on social media. I was a Terf and didn’t understand what Simone de Beauvoir, the author of one of the great feminist tracts, The Second Sex, meant when she wrote: “One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman.”

As a matter of fact, I have understood perfectly what de Beauvoir meant ever since I read her as a teenage girl. Her subject was that “second sex”. She used the word sex advisedly.

Your sex, male or female, is what you’re born with and determines whether you’ll provide the sperm or the eggs in the reproductive process. What de Beauvoir was analysing was gendered socialisation.

In other words, the girl who grows into a woman goes through a lifetime of pressure to become the socially constructed idea of what a woman should be, regardless of her innate talents, abilities or ambitions. It’s what feminism has sought to challenge. She did not mean that an individual born into the male sex, socialised into the expectations of the masculine gender, can simply decide to take hormones and maybe have surgery and “become a woman”." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be-trans-be-proud-but-dont-call-yourself-a-real-woman-frtld7q5c

Dame Jenni Murray's book, 'A History of Britain in 21 Women' a "polite yet passionate fingers up to history’s attempts to silence women." Shouldn't we join her as this is happening now, to her?
OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 08/11/2018 15:54

I wonder if the LBGT Oxford group are aware of how ironic their silencing of Jenni is.

And I wonder who will be next.

LizzieSiddal · 08/11/2018 15:55

My DD bought me Jenni’s book last year and I am going to order the new one.

Ereshkigal · 08/11/2018 16:03

I'm getting that book for myself and for several people for Christmas.

VickyEadie · 08/11/2018 16:06

That's several people's Xmas gift sorted!

seekingclarity · 08/11/2018 16:14

I've bought the book. Women must not be silenced.

BirdseyeFrozen · 08/11/2018 16:16

Bought both books, several times over. A treat for me. and some Christmas presents. Jenni is not a transphobe. She is someone who speaks out against stupidity.

BirdseyeFrozen · 08/11/2018 16:28

Don't forget her Votes for Women book!
I've just bought all three in hardback for a Christmas Cracker of a present.

Also, I commend Birdeye's Inspirations Tagliatelle with Mushroom for a quick and easy supper to read them by?
Better even than a hot choc!

BouncingOn · 08/11/2018 18:54

Absolutely skint but have popped it in my basket and will buy next week. I see Frida Kahlo is in it, bloody love her!

Ereshkigal · 08/11/2018 18:55

Do we think a precocious 12 year old would appreciate it? She is bright, likes history. I would have done at her age.

R0wantrees · 08/11/2018 19:00

I would have appreciated it then too.

OP posts:
WoodpeckersAreWood · 08/11/2018 19:15

Just downloaded both in support

Thank you Jenni. If I knew you IRL I’d buy you a bloody drink. You’re brilliant. Intelligent, measured and not afraid to speak the truth.

Am older wiser version of the small boy. The empror has no clothes.

WoodpeckersAreWood · 08/11/2018 19:17

....

Will this be the new Mumsnet Raven?

Right, off to have some BIRDS EYE fish fingers. (Hmm i fancy peas and potato waffles, I wonder if there’s a frozen food company that manufactures them but also respects their actual customer base??)

boldlygoingsomewhere · 08/11/2018 19:21

It would be lovely if the collective power of women could get Jenni further up the bestseller chart. It would be a great rebuttal to the nonsense.

KatVonGulag · 08/11/2018 19:59

They'll be confused.
Who has brought jenni's books? Is it the Russians or the American right?
Can be ordinary pissed off uk women right? Cause we've been erased

Ifonlyus · 08/11/2018 20:04

I'm definitely buying it for our household. I'm building a pro-woman book collection and this will fit nicely.

CoolGirlsNeverGetAngry · 08/11/2018 20:05

I’m going to buy one for me and one for my mum. She had me listening to WH when I was tiny.

mejon · 08/11/2018 20:51

Ereshkigal - I'm going to buy both for my history-loving 12yo. Even if she doesn't 'get' them now, she can try again in a few years.

nc666 · 08/11/2018 21:36

(Obvs nc for this, because, well, you know...)

I’ve borrowed the digital version of “Memoirs of Not So Dutiful Daughter” from the library. That’s the only Jenni Murray book available as a digital borrow.

But, my daughter works for the county library service and she was here this evening. As I was explaining the whole situation to her, she was immediately on her phone to access the to see what Jenni Murray books were available across the county. There’s about 15 of the “A History of Britain in 21 Women” physical books, all of them out on loan – the very latest was borrowed today from the local library, so someone got in there before I could. Hmm

There were none of the “A History of the World in 21 Women” books, but the library service is currently buying in more books, so she’ll put that one on the must-buy list when she’s in work tomorrow. Smile

KatVonGulag · 08/11/2018 21:45

nc666
That's brilliant.
We'll fight em in the libraries!
We'll fight em in the bookshops!
Love it

Wrathofjurgenklop · 08/11/2018 21:59

I'll definitely be buying a copy.
Her other book Dutiful daughter was great as well.

FoxBaseBeta · 08/11/2018 22:08

Just ordered

WomaninBoots · 08/11/2018 22:34

I think I might buy a hard copy for my Dad and brother for Christmas. I'll get my mum and SIL some whiskey. Grin

ThisMadnessMustStop · 08/11/2018 22:48

Ordered. Will read and review on Amazon.

ThisMadnessMustStop · 08/11/2018 22:48

womaninboots 😁

ProfessoressWoland · 08/11/2018 23:55

what a great way to take a stand against these would-be book burners! I'm going to order three copies from my local bookshop.