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WEP conference, questions for panel of trans rights advocating barristers?

(68 Posts)
Procrastinator1 Fri 03-Aug-18 19:07:43

As set out in a previous thread, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3318961-Ultimate-betrayal-by-the-WEP
the WEP are going to be debating a motion which includes self ID of sex in September

Before the debate on the motion they are holding a question and answer session with two barristers who have advised the government and are thought to be very sympathetic to trans rights proponents. Twitter thread about the Q & A session twitter.com/Indy_Leya/status/1024703148236132353

One of the barristers, Michelle Brewer, is involved with an organisation called TENLI, Trans Equality Legal Initiative, with our favourite, suspended NUS trans officer, Jess Bradley

I wonder if any WEP members who will be attending have any questions for the barristers, for instance, about the impact of self ID on natal women or how Jess has shaped the trans argument over the last few years, or whether the personal proclivities or motivations of policy shapers should be taken into account when assessing the policies they advocate for?

I'm sure lots of people would be interested in the answers.

Procrastinator1 Fri 03-Aug-18 19:10:58

Further relevant thread
read:https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3325623-Jess-Bradley-a-government-advisor-on-womens-rights-suspended-by-NUS-over-indecent-blog-Part-iii?watched=1&msgid=79946922

Mxyzptlk Fri 03-Aug-18 19:12:12

I'd like this to be asked :
What safeguards will be put in place to prevent predatory males from taking advantage of self-id legislation to gain access to women and girls in vulnerable situations?

Procrastinator1 Fri 03-Aug-18 19:19:57

Sorry I should make it clear I'm not attending, but I am hoping someone else from here is.

vagender Fri 03-Aug-18 19:22:08

What Mxy said, and, more specifically and in light of recent events, how will male sex offenders in female prison estates be prevented from sexually assaulting other inmates? Also, how will registering crimes like that as female-on-female impact the validity of crime statistics?

Floisme Fri 03-Aug-18 19:32:54

I think I'd be tempted to go straight for the jugular and ask her directly about her association with Bradley.

I guess it might get me thrown out but that in itself would be revealing.

(I'm not going by the way or even a member, just feeling mischievious.)

VickyEadie Fri 03-Aug-18 19:37:02

How safe are women if people like Jess Bradley are allowed to self-id into women's safe spaces?

How many people like Jess Bradley - with fetishes and kinks offensive and threatening to women - does the category 'transwomen' now include?

BarrackerBarmer Fri 03-Aug-18 19:45:26

"aren't you embarrassed to be advocating for a legal lie; that male can become female?"
"Do you feel the public can continue to have confidence in our justice system when it is validating a known untruth, and punishing those who are unwilling or unable to collude with the lie?"
"What SHOULD the punishment be for actual females who do not submit to males who insist they are female?"

BigPinkBall Fri 03-Aug-18 19:47:05

What safeguards will be put in place to prevent predatory males from taking advantage of self-id legislation to gain access to women and girls in vulnerable situations?

^ This

I think that this is the only thing that concerns me and a lot of other people, so far as I’m concerned if anyone wants to present as the opposite gender what business is it of mine? Live and let live, I just don’t want vulnerable women to be affected and if that means telling someone with a male body and the superior strength and stamina that comes with that body that they can’t go into women’s spaces then so be it.

FlippinFumin Fri 03-Aug-18 19:50:36

How are they going to explain to our female athletes that they will be expected to compete against male bodied peers with all the advantages of body muscle, lung capacity and skeletal advantages.

Floisme Fri 03-Aug-18 19:57:42

And something about crime statistics: as someone in the legal profession, does it concern her to see male violence reported and recorded as a female crime?

It may not be a concern to her but hopefully those listening will take note.

vagender Fri 03-Aug-18 20:02:53

How will self ID impact medical research? And how can they ensure a trans person receives adequate sex-specific medical treatment when necessary? (Wasn't there a case of a trans man dying after being given the "male typical" form of treatment for a kidney problem or something?) Rendering biological sex meaningless is dangerous, on every level.

Macareaux Fri 03-Aug-18 20:16:37

Nowhere else in life do we take someone's word about issues that really matter. We don't pay out pensions to people simply because they claim to be sixty five. We don't let people out of jail because they claim to be innocent. We don't let doctors operate on us on their say-so that they are qualified. Why would we legislate to let people say they are the opposite sex and treat it like something that cannot be challenged or questioned?

LemonJello Fri 03-Aug-18 20:25:21

I would ask Michelle:

Jess Bradley, a transwoman and your colleague, has been engaging in voyeuristic behaviour. He has also been lobbying government for a law change that would help facilitate voyeuristic behaviour.

He has used mainstream media platforms to belittle womens concerns and has told them that they have nothing to worry about because this sort of thing won’t happen, while he has been participating in that very thing.

Which facilities do you think Jess Bradley should use Michelle? Male, female or unisex?

UpstartCrow Fri 03-Aug-18 20:27:34

What advice do the panel give to women from conservative, religious or abusive backgrounds, who are not permitted to share spaces with male bodied people?

AskATerf Fri 03-Aug-18 20:33:04

What is a woman?

What is a man?

Marilla27 Fri 03-Aug-18 20:39:48

I would like to know how many women post pictures of their dicks on the internet?

But seriously, at what point does a man 'become a woman'?

I'd feel safer if it was after they'd been castrated. I am thinking of all those male prisoners who can now decide that they are 'women'. What happens when they leave prison?

womanspeaking Fri 03-Aug-18 21:31:10

I recall reading about a previous WEP conference and if I recall correctly they only allowed pre-moderated questions. It was then that I realised that as a political entity they were useless. Can you imagine in a serious political party only allowing pre checked questions?
I couldn't decide whether it was the usual silencing to ensure that no one had to define the word woman or whether the party decided that women are so fragile that we aren't able to speak without a script.
I suspect it was the former. sad

These brilliant questions will never be heard and instead the room will chant TWAW at regular intervals like a Mormon convention. grin

R0wantrees Fri 03-Aug-18 22:33:53

In what capacity is appearing at this event?

Has she disclosed her interests?

Is Michelle Brewer aware of the 9 protected characteristics of the Equalities Act 2010?

Is she aware of any deliberate attempts by her co-founders or current team to misquote or misapply this legislation?

Why does she think LAs and other statutory services and organisations have had Diversity & Equality policies incorrectly quoting and potentially misapplying this legislation?

Has TELI advocated / lobbied for the removal of sex as a protected characteristic?

What status is TELI- as it has some prominant and powerful charities, organisations and individuals involved, should its funding, , aims and objectives be transparent? Is it a lobbying group, if so to whom is it accountable?

qumquat Fri 03-Aug-18 23:13:19

This is a great idea but is anyone here actually going?

Hackedoffwoman Fri 03-Aug-18 23:32:17

I doubt critical questions would be given the floor space. I'd rather see a gender critical lawyer on the panel given time to rebut. Now that I would turn up for!

Wanderabout Fri 03-Aug-18 23:58:46

What Rowantrees said

Procrastinator1 Sat 04-Aug-18 00:03:15

If no one is going from here and even if they were, questions are likely to be moderated, we should send an open letter to Sophie and Michelle.

CoCoCoconut Sat 04-Aug-18 00:11:18

Does their version of intersectional feminism recognise having a female reproductive system as an axis of oppression?

If people who have female reproductive systems do experience particular forms of oppression on that basis, what should we call that group so that we can identify and fight their oppression?

If 'woman' includes both women with female reproductive systems and transwomen with male reproductive systems, why is being both 'woman' and male (trans) framed as being doubly oppressed, whereas being both 'woman' and female is framed as cis privilege? Surely even if the TWAW premise is accepted, natal women are oppressed both for being part of the oppressed 'woman' category, and for having female reproductive systems? Why doesn't the libfem (mis)understanding of intersectionality recognise that intersection and vindicate the rights of those within such a doubly oppressed group to name themselves, organise, and have safe space?

Marilla27 Sat 04-Aug-18 00:28:35

There's quite a lot of talk on twitter about this. Somebody said that a WEP insider was saying that on the whole women were too afraid to speak out for fear of intimidation, smear and harassment.

Interesting message from Heather in response, "Who can blame women for being afraid of expressing gender critical views? Why would Sophie Walker suddenly mitigate smearing and harassment when her party has already enacted this on its Spokeswoman?"

Someone else has posted "Something i’ve observed: every time women challenge the WEP, a pro-WEP sock account pops up to chastise the dissenters."

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