Nhs and single sex wards

[drinkswineoutofamug]

I work for the nhs. For years now we have had single sexed bays apart from icu, hdu, ccu and sometimes assessment units. How will the nhs deal with the mixed bays? They are fined for single sex breaches, it's puzzling me as if this lunacy is passed, a man saying he's a woman can be placed in a female bay, just for saying he ids as a woman with no GRC. Surely this will mean that nhs England will have to draft in a whole new load of policies to deal with this, and more staff on the wards to monitor the situation. Sorry if this has been talked about before.

It hasn't been talked about much, and it is something many of us are concerned about.
Those of us who have been on mixed sex wards have not had good experiences.

It’s a really important question.

I know this has been referred to previously but this concerns me a lot. The Equality Impact Assessment for the proposed changed to the GRA does not adequately address the large expansion in the numbers identifying as women, wishing for access to single sex spaces. Inn this case they seem to have ignored the issue of this woman's protected characteristic rights in terms of sex and disability www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/lancaster-mum-with-fear-of-men-locked-on-hospital-ward-with-transgender-patient-1-8963648

The NHS currently will treat people as their preferred gender, regardless of their biological sex on the basis of a letter from their GP. No GRC or even contact with gender identity services needed.

So that boat has sailed.

The NHS, at least my little corner of it, is in no way ready for this and it is very concerning. I work on a surgical ward, 6 bed bays and just two single rooms. As pp said, hospital is fined if bays are mixed up and we do not do that. But what to do if a male bodied woman arrives on the ward? The single rooms are allocated according to clinical needs and not necessarily available, just this last week they have both been occupied by patients with infection risk and we had to cancel two people's planned procedures as they could not be accommodated in a bay appropriate for their sex. It will be very difficult according to different ward layouts.

Also some new hospitals eg Southmead in Bristol have been built with predominantly single rooms which you might think would solve the problem but the rooms are arranged down a very long corridor so if a patient is likely to go into someone else's room, especially on the night shift when there may be less staff around, supervision and security will be a problem.

The other issue of course is the matter of trans nurses and doctors. Having once been on the receiving end of a thorough groin grope by a male sports "physio" (suspect he identified as such, not qualified, I work with lovely male physios and don't want to besmirch the profession) I generally request and expect female professionals for anything intimate. But when you are discombobulated by the arrival of an obvious male it is difficult to calmly object and you will end up feeling guilty for being rude/unkind.

Thing is the NHS currently treats people as their preferred gender, as for beds ect it comes down to what the persons NHS number and the gender listed on it. If it's a emergency, then it comes down to ID/clothing ect. The NHS has guidelines on this all which can be found rather easily.

the rooms are arranged down a very long corridor so if a patient is likely to go into someone else's room, especially on the night shift when there may be less staff around, supervision and security will be a problem.

I recently stayed on a ward like this. Honestly, I felt horribly vulnerable. I'd rather have been on a ward with other patients, even though I know there are disadvantages to that like noise

I may have to be brave and question the equality officer or what ever they are called in the hospital. We do have a transgender policy, apparently. Should I do it in person or email? And what should I ask? Should I put it to them as I started this thread? What the hell is the nhs going to do?!

When I think of the gynae operations that I've had, one of the positives was being on an all female ward and feeling comfortable with all the challenges that my body posed because I was in an all female environment. Interestingly, maternity care felt much less 'safe' because of other people's male partners wandering round the ward all times of day and night.
Like everything with this whole toxic mess, women's rights and feelings are so low down on everyone's list of priorities.

I've talked about this on a couple of threads this week. I'm only repeating myself here, but I think I've become a little obsessed with this issue, so sod it.

The policy of one NHS Trust in London, which largely provides mental health services and counts the Royal Bethlem among its hospitals, is to treat trans patients according to their "preferred gender". All transpeople, including those with no GRC and those who have made no medical or surgical transition. This means admitting them onto the ward and allowing them access to shower and toilet facilities, etc, of their choosing regardless of their biological sex.

The policy references the EA exemptions, but says that other patients being unhappy with the presence of the transperson will not be considered enough of a reason to move the transperson to an "inappropriate"(!) ward. There is no acknowledgement that a patient may be uncomfortable with sharing facilities with a transperson for any reason other than transphobia.

I truly do not understand how NHS Trusts, which are routinely fined for failing to provide single-sex accommodation and facilities, can let transpeople go wherever they like based on their gender identity. As soon as a transwoman is admitted onto a female ward, that ward becomes mixed-sex.

Why does Gender Reassignment come above Sex in the EA's list of protected characteristics? Why does the NHS feel that it should avoid using the right to exclude transwomen from female wards in almost all circumstances? (And transmen from male wards, of course). Is it so hard to prove that applying the EA exemptions is necessary in any given scenario, or do they just not want to do it?

I have no faith that the NHS will deal adequately with placing Trans-identifying patients in single-decker bays. I was recently talking to a female nurse who, along with every biological woman in the department, was forced to use the same communal changing room as a 6 foot 4 trans woman. Those who objected were told to suck it up.

Single decker bays?! Single sexed bays. Although double decker bays might alleviate the beds crisis 😂

Tbh OP, I'd be very careful if you're employed by the NHS. It is the NHS that have been funding GIRES, Mermaids etc, that have supported the use of terms like chest feeding and pregnant people. They have been thoroughly gaslighted which is why women's health issues are rapidly being eradicated (see Cancer Research feeling unable to use the word woman in relation to cervical cancer ffs).
It really won't be until people start joining up the dots - increase in sexual assaults on women in hospitals, reduction in women accessing specific healthcare etc) that there will be a roll back. And that makes it professionally dangerous for women to individually challenge things in their workplaces (imho). Makes them an immediate target for the bullies - just look at what's happening to the signatories of the letter in the Morning Star demanding that violence and intimidation of women stop - they're being intimidated!

Your trust will have a policy for both patients and staff, this discussion has been around for years. Patients are usually asked which ward they would prefer to be in. I can't see any issue with bathroom or toilet facilities, it's not like they are communal and what difference is there in the toilets except for a sign on the door. Maybe the signs should be removed.

On the basis of a consultation with your GP you can also get a new NHS medical card stating your preferred gender. Nothing will change with the proposed simplification for getting a GRC.

It's already here. What isn't here quite yet is the ever multiplying numbers of teenagers and young adults identifying as trans - give them time to get into the system (needing health care as they go through life). Only then will the NHS realise what the problem is.

I am assuming this also means a woman who says she is a man can be allowed into men's areas.
Are you going to object to that as well on behalf of male patients as I am sure they would not like it.

In case anyone has missed it, Fairplay for Women have submitted a Freedom of Information request about assaults on single-sex NHS wards. They were given the (shocking) number of 900 in a three-month period, but refused further information on the grounds that looking into it would cost too much money

I too cannot understand how the NHS has drunk the Kool-Aid so thoroughly and cannot see the cognitive dissonance they are engaging in. Echoing flourellas excellent points:

I truly do not understand how NHS Trusts, which are routinely fined for failing to provide single-sex accommodation and facilities, can let transpeople go wherever they like based on their gender identity. As soon as a transwoman is admitted onto a female ward, that ward becomes mixed-sex.

Why does Gender Reassignment come above Sex in the EA's list of protected characteristics? Why does the NHS feel that it should avoid using the right to exclude transwomen from female wards in almost all circumstances? (And transmen from male wards, of course). Is it so hard to prove that applying the EA exemptions is necessary in any given scenario, or do they just not want to do it?

Flourella, do those assaults include assaults by the same sex patients, visitors, staff

Stark staring is right. It is already here. I suspect many of the problems so far have arisen within mental health services, which lets face it are Cinderella services still in many areas. And possibly patients' complaints less likely to be listened to? Out in the general wards I would think the numbers being small that it would usually be possible to accommodate within a single room and not really a problem. Until numbers rise and there isn't a single room.

HeGotManFlu that's what the CQC won't elaborate on. It could be that not a single assault was committed by a transperson on a ward meant for the opposite sex to them, but I think we have a right to know. More generally, I think we have a right to know why being a patient in an NHS hospital puts people at such risk and where that risk comes from.

And even if no transperson has ever caused a problem while in hospital, it still doesn't justify why other patients' sex-based rights are being ridden over roughshod in the treating of transpeople according to their preferred gender. Not to me, anyway.

The problem is there will be no records of sexual assaults etc by male bodied transgender people. These figures have been refused to FPFW's FOI request regarding mental health figures.
t.co/Q5dh8nOepg

I was going to ask if this would be something the F.O.I or the Patients Association would have details of