Nhs and single sex wards

[drinkswineoutofamug]

I work for the nhs. For years now we have had single sexed bays apart from icu, hdu, ccu and sometimes assessment units. How will the nhs deal with the mixed bays? They are fined for single sex breaches, it's puzzling me as if this lunacy is passed, a man saying he's a woman can be placed in a female bay, just for saying he ids as a woman with no GRC. Surely this will mean that nhs England will have to draft in a whole new load of policies to deal with this, and more staff on the wards to monitor the situation. Sorry if this has been talked about before.

.' I can't see any issue with bathroom or toilet facilities, it's not like they are communal'

If it's a mental health ward where you can't lock the door though, and one of the other patients has already been staring at you / behaving in a sexually aggressive way eg by sitting around with their willy on full view?
(And yes I know someone to whom the latter thing has happened.)

FPFW seem to think that the CQC probably do have the figures, they are just using the excuse of cost to not reveal them under FOI exemption 12.

Hello NHS folk, are there sex based guidelines, rules for people working in NHS re intimate exams etc, e.g. can a female nurse refuse to do intimate exam on a man and vice versa?

and how about chaperoning intimate exams, my male doctors just do it automatically, I assume because it protects patient and doctor.

I really struggle to understand how we've got so far down the rabbit hole without most of the population being aware that single sex no longer means single sex. Absolutely appalled by the NHS ignoring the EA and allowing men on single sex ward.

Always been massively in favour of single sex wards and had this reaffirmed by experience -both my own of feeling awfully vulnerable with men wandering around the maternity ward (including outside visiting hours) and I firmly believe being put on a mixed sex ward in a mental health unit contributed to the death of a family friend. She wasn't sectioned until her health had deteriorated and weight drastically dropped. Then after admission had the crap beaten out of her by a male patient, black eye, teeth knocked out, after which she was too scared to even look at anyone, barely ate and died of heart failure weighing next to nothing.. Prior to that we believe she'd had a sexual relationship with another male patient whilst clearly too unwell to consent.

Interestingly, maternity care felt much less 'safe' because of other people's male partners wandering round the ward all times of day and night.

I’ve spoken about this under another user name but I was attacked physically and verbally by the partner of a woman on my post natal ward, after having one of my DC. I was so vulnerable and scared. I am now pregnant again but it took me a long time and a lot of counselling to make that decision and it was primarily based on that assault. I will be aiming for a home birth if possible, this is something I have been advised against because of my medical history but as DH and I are both HCP we are willing to take the risk at this stage.

That hospital has now changed their visiting policy on that ward back to 10am-10pm with protected meal times, it was previously a free for all.

In the hospital I work in we have majority mixed wards with single sex bays and I know there have been many discussions about which bays trans persons should be treated on. I know our new assessment units have been built with extra single side rooms so perhaps this could be an answer.
I feel very, very sorry for any nurse or HCA having to deal with the fall out from this.

I work in an area of the hospital where demand for care is intense and we have no option but to have mixed sex care. Assaults happen and we have security on the floor.

I have thought about this

Gynae wards are female

What if a trans woman needed a prostatectomy.... would they be put on a gynae ward as we are told their organs are female...🤔

As long as the doctors and nurses are competent and able to care for a patient undergoing a prostatectomy why does it matter what ward they are on. If it's not a gynae problem don't you think they are more likely to be nursed on a general surgical or urology ward anyway.

There will not be a roll back if when it becomes apparent that this was a really stupid legislative move and the general public start baying for blood because of their mum/sister/daughter being assaulted, harassed, not allowed a female care professional etc etc. It would be nearly impossible to do, because it would then be actively removing rights. The only hope will be to create NEW legislation that adapts and re defines the language and exemptions they are fucking up now. Basically women and girls will have to re fight the battle their great great grandmothers fought, for every right women have now that is about to be erased. It's about to be the case that the 90s was as good as it ever got for women's rights.

You'd think a government that gaily joined hands and skipped off a cliff with Brexit would stop and think before creating another unholy legislative fuck up that will have consequences for decades, lead to massive social unrest and be nearly bloody impossible to repair once done. But no, apparently one wasn't enough.

It's funny isn't it, every government has understood from patient feedback that people HATE mixed sex wards. Governments have punished hospitals for failing to provide single sex care as that's what people - patients - SAY that they want.

Yet suddenly, everyone's recorded and evidenced feedback is being ignored because of the demands of a tiny and unrepresentative percentage of the population. The only hope is, that the as the tactics of bullying and intimidation are laid out for public gaze, literally hour by hour, people are gradually starting to be aware of what is happening to their rights in favour of this powerful self interested group.

flourella did the 900 figure come from CQC??

Ah yes I see from another thread that it did. It came from State of Care and then FPFW followed it up with a freedom of information request for information about the perpetrators of those attacks?

I'm best keeping mum then for the time being, which I don't like , but I need my job. This hasn't been thought through has it. I will try and find the thread regarding the CQC.

I’m afraid CQC would not have a breakdown on the figures about who committed assaults on single sex wards. That is well outside their remit. There is a statutory requirement to report incidents but the type of notification depends on the degree of harm. Most would not reach the benchmark for serious incident so details would not be available.

Most assaults reported as occurring in hospitals are rather sadly by those with dementia, drunks and illicit drug users. I think it’s unfair to assume the majority of assaults are by trans folk - particularly since it’s not true.

I think there are issues still to be addressed. I think women are entitled to feel comfortable in hospital and yes single rooms goes a long way to addressing that ( my understanding is that transgender folk are more likely to suffer assault than deliver it). Lavatories are single person with locking doors so not an issue.
I can see that if someone requested a same sex nurse or HCP for intimate care and they were assigned a trans nurse then the patient’s comfort should override the healthcare workers. Most healthcare workers would probably put their patients needs first.

It all comes down to 'transwomen are women'.

It's based on the belief that a man is literally in every way a woman - just a woman in a different shape. And to therefore treat this kind of woman in a different way to biological women is discriminatory.

But to believe that transubstantiation is real, and some women now (suddenly, in the last couple of years, without warning, throwing out the entire history of the UK) come with penises, and are somehow, unverifiably, completely different to men with penises even if they look exactly the same and the subjective experience of women is identical whether it's a man or a transwoman is pretty much a religious point of view.

People have the right not to believe. People have the right to say 'my reality is different'. People have the right to say no, my identity is equal to yours and I follow biology, not gender theory. People have the right not to be forced to service another population group by compulsory lying.

There is no morally ethical way to force people to collectively service a metaphysical/quasi religious belief that they do not believe in. It's all getting very Tudor England. And even with beheading and burning non compliant blasphemers, the Tudors failed to do it.

I don't think anyone assumed that, CherryPavlova. It seems to me to be important that the nature of the risks faced by patients on hospital wards is fully acknowledged and understood, wherever it comes from. Would there really not be a record of the details?

And surely single-sex should mean exactly that, without exception, otherwise what's the point of it?

I didn't even realise they had single sex wards. But looking back a couple of years ago when i was on AAU with pneumonia it was only women, I didn't notice!!
Saying that when I was on post natal I HATED having a man sleeping on the floor next to my bay looking up at me. I felt so vulnerable post birth. Why is that ok...

I think we agree re single sex wards.
No no record held by CQC without a huge complicated trawl with an analyst literally going through all the notifications of serious incidents and cataloguing them. Minor incidents such as a distressed and confused person grabbing a wrist of a staff member should be reported within each trust but aren’t reported nationally. A man accidentally (or otherwise) walking into a lavatory with an unlocked door when in use would not be reported externally either.

So that boat has sailed.

No it hasn't. All these things can be challenged. And will be.

why does it matter what ward they are on.

Because the other patients have rights, too.

All these things can be challenged. And will be.

But this needs to be done now . Now is the best time to write to your MP, to raise awareness of the impact of this on women and make your voices heard. Please don't wait until the legislation is in place.

But this needs to be done now . Now is the best time to write to your MP, to raise awareness of the impact of this on women and make your voices heard. Please don't wait until the legislation is in place.

Yes, you're right.

We have the EA why are we even having to justify this?? Law in this country is just being broken and ignored.

I'm in work today so going to read up on the transgender policy and single sex policy.
Based on this and recent events another letter will be sent, this time not just to my mp but to the equality office baroness of Trafford. I am fed up of being a second class citizen because I'm a woman. I'm fed up of nut jobs with a beard and penis telling me they are more a woman than me based on feelings

Many years ago a female friend of mine had some minor gynaecological surgery (not an NHS hospital). She was in a women's ward, but the other "women" were men who had undergone sex reassignment surgery. They were very flamboyantly feminine in the manner of drag queens.

Even several decades ago I thought it was peculiar and uncomfortable. I remember thinking, even then, that they seemed to think they could do women better than women.

That was probably the beginning of my scepticism about the whole transgender thing.

www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/ethical-hub/trans-healthcare

"Always ask which hospital ward your patient would prefer to be on"

Given that Bed Managers rule, it may we'll be a case of "where is there an available bed?" and wards are ordered according to medical needs I'm not sure this is helpful advice!