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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Some good news!

34 replies

pegdolly · 03/05/2018 06:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5684887/Minister-bans-student-trend-censoring-controversial-speakers.html

Seems that maybe, just maybe, common sense is creeping back into politics!

OP posts:
TheNavigator · 03/05/2018 06:24

Bit rich from the government that landed us with the 'Prevent' duty. It is Daily Mail pleasing posturing with no substance or merit - don't believe the hype.

QuarksandLeptons · 03/05/2018 06:29

Tentatively, very good news. Will be interesting to see how it is applied in real life

Original poster
pegdolly · 03/05/2018 06:33

It's refreshing. I think this could be the sound of the tide turning!

OP posts:
Mypronounsarepinkmacaron · 03/05/2018 06:34

This seems like good news but watch the snowflakes invoke the ‘violating existing laws’ clause to their own ends - they’ll claim anything they don’t like is hate speech and a hate crime.

Original poster
pegdolly · 03/05/2018 06:44

Oh, I'm certain that there will be backlash over it. But I think trying to tell the public they are hate mongers and nazis for believing in science will backfire.

It will peak-trans more people.

And, at the very least, it's one politician who isn't just spouting mantras about trans women being real actual-in-the-cells-and-DNA-women.

OP posts:
womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 07:16

Good news - a much needed course correction

ChattyLion · 03/05/2018 07:37

Great news. Free speech is essential to what universities are for: free, critical thought. If the government now can be brave and make universities actually free to attend (bringing back grants not loans) then we’d be putting our money where our mouth is in actively encouraging that freedom of thought.

I do wonder if madly high attendance fees are distorting what universities do and the relationship between student and university. which may not be unrelated to this no-platforming behaviour that some students are showing, but that’s for another thread.

ferntwist · 03/05/2018 07:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

LizzieSiddal · 03/05/2018 07:50

That is good news.

I presume universities will have to ensure any debates are able to happen, without intimidation. If so, they will become great places to plan and hold meetings.

OddBoots · 03/05/2018 07:54

I am guessing this is based on the recent Joint Committee on Human Rights report published here a few weeks ago. The report seems quite reasonable (not that I have had time to read in depth, I have just skimmed it so sorry if I have missed something).

Original poster
pegdolly · 03/05/2018 07:59

Ooooh, thanks boots, will have a read.

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 03/05/2018 11:47

There was a good article on this in the Times as well:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/sam-gyimah-crackdown-on-students-silencing-free-speech-x28jx85fc

Wanderabout · 03/05/2018 11:48

A “murky” legal landscape, with guidance from various regulators, lets zealots censor those with whom they disagree, Mr Gyimah will say.

The new rules signal the seriousness with which the government is taking free speech on campus.

Worth reading in full.

Datun · 03/05/2018 11:58

This authoritarian no-platforming fad is absolutely linked to the way sky-high fees have turned universities into a marketplace, with students as the consumer. They’re the boss now.

This.

There was a thread on it last year. The points system that universities use, whereby a student gets to grade them, is at the root of this.

Based on the results of the grading, the universities acquire a status which translates to money.

(I know that's a very loose description, but I can't remember the exact name.)

But it means the students have the universities over a barrel.

If the universities can claim they will be fined for no platforming, it lets them deal with it without negative impact.

gendercritter · 03/05/2018 14:26

I've just been reading about it in the Times.

When you think about it, it's staggering that students should be trying to shut diwn debate. Typically that's where the most radical discussions begin. Students in previous generations have started revolutions by talking about danferous things. How are we here that this generation wants coddling and protecting so much, with every man and his* dog being triggering.

*her/their/ze

R0wantrees · 03/05/2018 14:27

Discussed by Julia H-B this morning at about 25 mins in to the segment. It is discussed specifically in relation to feminists and Linda Bellos.

The comment about how it was dismissed by an NUS spokesperson as 'not happening and tabloid-fodder' is very important.

talkradio.co.uk/radio/listen-again/1525325400#

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 14:53

There's a bit at 11 min in and then she says it will discussed later and unsure when?

R0wantrees · 03/05/2018 15:01

There are two points when its discussed. The main part with Claire Fox starts at 09:23 so you need to click onto the 9-9.30 segment and then +23 mins.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 15:10

there's a bit around 7.50am but very fluffy and more about you shouldn't be a t Uni if you can't tolerate different views

The substantive discussion is at 9.20am about offence culture and whether these people are employable after Uni and how their intolerance is enabled by Unis and other organisations. How they are harassing people and getting people sacked etc. Feminists mentioned amongst others that are being deplatformed. Talk about culture wars on campus. Linda Bellos mentioned along with women's rights. Also about NUS denying there's a problem..

womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/05/2018 15:11

Oh cross posted R0wantrees - thx :)

wacademia · 04/05/2018 00:13

@chattylion @ferntwist @datun

The students fill in National Student Survey and the NSS then feeds into Teaching Excellence Framework and Unistat (Which? for undergraduate applicants), which in turn affects applicant numbers and by extension tuition fee revenue. University management at institution- and department-level are are terrified of anything that could result in bad NSS scores so have a lot of motivation to give the students what they want, even if it's going to harm the students and the country in the long run by turning out a generation of unemployable bigots with no psychological resilience and no critical thinking skills.

Bear in mind also that the students who spout the pomo genderism nonsense are usually non-STEM students getting charged £9k per year for a course that requires no lab sessions, no reagents or other consumables, no expensive equipment, no pricey software licences, and no PPE. So more of the fees from non-STEM subjects are profit available for vice-chancellors' vastly inflated salaries and vanity institutes other purposes within the university, giving the uni an extra incentive to yield to non-STEM students' opinions compared to rheir STEM counterparts.

I work at a university giving technical support to teaching a STEM subject and I see the students wanting to be spoonfed and hand-held more and more, even compared to when I got my degree ten years ago.

OlennasWimple · 04/05/2018 00:27

I don't see the connection between this and the Prevent duty TheNavigator? Confused

TheNavigator · 04/05/2018 06:20

The University has to have policies in place to vet speakers - that was the reason for all the forms Harriet Harman went on about - we have to show we are taking steps to prevent radicalisation and that includes showing we are vetting speakers. It is bollocks and makes me highly sceptical of the sudden Daily Mail pleasing commitment to 'free speech'

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