Push back via the LibDems?

[Merchfach]

I have met and talked to a local LibDem councillor a few times in the past so when I saw tweets from the LibDem LGBT account calling Mumsnetters transphobes I emailed him and gave him my gender critical POV with both barrels. I said that I couldn't possibly vote LibDem if they regard me as a transphobic bigot.

As a result of this I've been approached by a couple of LibDem people who say they entirely agree with me, they want to take it on within the party but they need gender critical people to join and speak up and make a big deal about it.

Is this a viable strategy? If, say, 200+ women were to join the LibDems and agitate on just that one issue, could we effect a change in policy? Could we, as outsiders, say things that long-term LibDem members who have their lives invested in the party feel they can't say?

I'm thinking about the next general election and the prospect of having no party to vote for. I've never abstained or spoiled a vote before and I'm not thrilled at the idea of having to do that.

Labour is too big and the dudebros are too entrenched and self- righteous to have any effect. The Greens are, I suspect, wallowing in deep misogyny. But the LibDems — could they be encouraged to be the party prepared to take this on? They seem to have nothing left to lose.

[SwearyGodPervert]

They didn't listen to me when I was in the party, and told me that they wouldn't even hear my complaints about the twitter account as it was a separate entity. They've said the same to many people on here too.

It's a lovely idea, but I just don't believe them to do anything positive. They've showed their hand to me and I don't trust them to do anything worthwhile for women. They do, however, need our money and our labour.

[Merchfach]

That's useful feedback. Are you an existing member or did you join so you could raise the issue?

I just remember Edmund Burke's quote: 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good (wo)men to do nothing' and it makes we want to do something.

What I don't want to do is join the LibDems and run myself into the ground trying to kick up a fuss and create change if there isn't a hope in hell of that happening.

[SwearyGodPervert]

I was an existing member - having joined over Brexit - but I left over the LGBTLD twitter account and the party not being willing to take ownership of it.

They have lost my membership, my subs and my vote. I am so sad because there's nobody to vote for and in the centenary year of some women having the vote I have no option but to spoil my ballot. It's a huge sadness to me.

[Sparctopus]

I'm a member but not happy about their current policy on this and that twitter account... hoping to bring this up soon with local candidates etc but not had a chance to do much yet. But I would rather push for some change from inside than quit if that's possible (esp while they're the only ones pushing against Brexit). So I'm interested if there's anything being organised. Also trying to keep up hope that some good may come of the Brian Paddick conversations eventually...not MUCH hope but at least a little!

[LizzieSiddal]

I’ve voted Libdem at every single election and will never vote for them again after this Twitter debarkle.
I’ve donated money in the past and they keep sending me emails asking for more. Im trying to summon up the energy to write and tell them why but I know they won’t care!

[Wanderabout]

Do write Lizzie. Lots of people just don't know what is going on.

[Merchfach]

Lizzie, I keep getting stuff from them and requests for donations and like you I ignored it but didn't bother to say anything.

I assumed my email would just go into the trash — so imagine my astonishment to get a response and one that, without going into details, indicated that there are gender critical people actively challenging what's going on within the LibDems. Please let them know how you feel. If enough of us do it, who knows? But what we can say for certain is that doing nothing will achieve nothing.

[TransAuthor]

It's really eye opening to come on here after reading all the press today and actually see people organising against the 'trans agenda.' I thought it was just media scaremongering as usual, but to actually read it with my own eyes is just horrible.

Remember in the eighties and nineties when there was rampant and open homophobia in the news? Can you see how disgusted modern society is with how we treated gay and lesbians back then?

The transphobia issue will be viewed exactly the same soon, and MN will be remembered as a haven to the people who openly and rampantly rave against trans people unless this kind of 'discussion' is stopped.

[Ritzsaltedcrackers]

Yes, TransAuthor, many of the posters on here were involved in the fight back against homophobia all those years ago.

This is not the same thing.

Future societies will be disgusted. But not by the way trans people were treated. They will be disgusted by the sterilisation and mutilation of gender non conforming children, the homophobia and the naked, unfettered misogyny that are all central to the trans movement.

Nice try, but it won't wash.

[TransAuthor]

This is the same thing, Crackers. It's a protected characteristic. Trans people have no choice in their gender identity, just like sexuality.

There are no children being sterilised or mutilated and it is a dogwhistle phrase trying to say they are. NHS minimum ages for surgery and hormones are 18 and 16, and only after the child (now young adult) has consistently shown their gender identity is different than the one assigned at birth.

You talk about this "trans movement' like it's some organised political party or congruent card-carrying organisation. This is really daft. You talk about misogyny but what about trans men? Or what about people who don't identify as male or female, where is the misogyny there?

[Anlaf]

Please give yourself permission to think critically on this transauthor

Placemarking OP- I agree it is worth trying to make debate in the Lib Dems

Brian Paddick has tweeted about his meeting with Women's Place UK

I’ve only met two representatives from @WomansPlaceUK in a meeting that included 3 trans women & an academic. Nothing said in that meeting made me think they were anti trans rights. Participants didn’t agree on everything but it was cordial. Listening doesn’t hurt or corrupt.

There may be hope yet

[TransAuthor]

So you're literally openly talking about a specific child and the size of their genitals.

You say you've heard of all these terrible things happening but fail to provide proof or sources. I can't take any of that seriously because you could be making it all up to further your agenda.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

TransAuthor, what's your explanation for the very recent huge surge in young girls identifying as trans? Don't you think it should at least be researched? Social contagion is a very well-known phenomenon.

Nobody here wants to prevent people from dressing and behaving in the way that feels right for them. Quite the contrary. Conservatives want people to conform to the stereotypes that match their body. Transgenderists want people to change their bodies to match the stereotypes they want to conform to. Gender critical people say forget the stereotypes, just get on with your life.

I'm particularly bothered by the idea that young girls who don't want to have long hair and plaster themselves in make-up are being told that shows they are really boys, and boys who show any signs of liking dressing up and 'girls' toys' are labelled as girls. This is ludicrous. Gender non-conforming children are more likely to be gay, so it's also homophobic.

[SwearyGodPervert]

Can I be the first to call bingo?

Literally
Children's genitals
Just like gay rights
Have we had wrong side of history yet?

Cock off, transauthor, unless you have something worthwhile to say.

[Anlaf]

[GrimDamnFanjo]

Former LibDem member here. Was a member for many years,held office too.
The idea is good but I can't see it working. The libdems are organised in a very different way to the other parties. I'm not as up to speed as I was to the policy making but it used to be formed by working groups the amended and voted on by members at conference for example.
The lgbt lobby is very powerful, which was great around gay marriage, age of consent etc, but the party has a misoginistic streak that's pretty difficult to overcome.

[Greymisty]

Transauthor I'm interested in the OP's point, gender critical feminism and the libdems. Meanwhile your on here to whinge about how you don't like mumsnet. Don't use mumsnet if you don't like it. If you think mumsnet should change its ways then start a thread talking about how that could happen.

[TransAuthor]

Wonderdog - I think there is a huge gap in the research on gender variance and trans people, there was very little written until recently but more studies are being done. I look forward to their conclusions. I'd like to see your sources to back up your claim that there is a "huge surge" though, maybe that's just your perception.

SwearyGodPervert - Thanx for the valuable input.

Wonderdog and Parley - I just think it's inappropriate to talk about a child's genitals. It's kinda creepy, and feels like you're a bit obsessed with children's private parts to be honest. Leave the facts to doctors, not randoms on the internet.

Bourbons - From what I've heard, any medical issues stop once the binder is taken off. Please don't misgender SG's daughter or use her to justify your position. Respect the family please. There are people who detransition, current stats from the NHS puts it at 2% at most. People go through extensive therapy and are made aware of risks and challenges, at some point you've gotta believe the person coming into the clinic and let them make their own informed choices.

[LangCleg]

Remember in the eighties and nineties when there was rampant and open homophobia in the news?

Remember yesterday when there was rampant and open homophobia in transactivist circles?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/documents/408/gids-service-statistics.pdf

Seems pretty clear. 40 girls in 2009/10, 929 in 2015/16.

[LangCleg]

I just think it's inappropriate to talk about a child's genitals.

I think it's inappropriate for a child's genitals to be the subject of a prime time TV show, from which both parents and doctors benefit financially. What say you?