To ask the male equivalent of 'TERF'?

[liparistromboli]

Firstly to say that I have been following the trans debates on here for a while and my eyes have been opened so thank you for your intelligent and informed posts. I peak transed a few weeks ago and now go around in a permanent state of rage (so thanks for that too).

One thing that I have noticed is that much of the debate seems to be centred on the 'transphobia' of women. What never comes up is the 'transphobia' that TRAs experience from MEN (men who have decided to carrying on identifying as, well, men).

I have been talking to men of my acquaintance and the response to this seems to be a) ignorance - they have never heard of self-id and b) hilarity at things like 'lady penis' and c)That men identifying as women should not be allowed into women's refuges etc. This incredulous reaction has been across the board, from young men to old men.
How are the TRAs dealing with 'transphobia' from biological men who also don't agree with self-id etc? Or are they not interested in promoting their interests among men? Or is it only biological women they want to go after? Because men who have no interest in using ladies toilets etc. don't seem to be on board with this either.

In short, how do TRAs target 'hatred' among men? I find it very confusing. Are they scared of biological men who identify as men? Or are men also being 're-educated' like biological women? I think more men need to get in on this debate, as many don't even seem to know it exists. It just seems like a fight to the death between women and transwomen.

In short, how do TRAs target 'hatred' among men?

They come and try to hide behind us in the ladies loo.

Literally that. Rather than say anything against the transphobic males who make them afraid to go in sex segregated toilets, they prefer to dismantle all women's sex-based protections and declare them gender based. All to avoid confronting men about violent transphobia.

TERF is a hate term used to describe people concerned with biological women's rights.

In short, how do TRAs target 'hatred' among men? I find it very confusing. Are they scared of biological men who identify as men? Or are men also being 're-educated' like biological women? I think more men need to get in on this debate, as many don't even seem to know it exists. It just seems like a fight to the death between women and transwomen.

Women are simply holding what they fought for. Trans identified people can use our model to do the same for themselves, they chose to attack us instead.

Yes, every man I have spoken to as , as you said, has been a mix of disbelief and hilarity. I dont think the TRAs want to know what most actual men think as they probably realise they wont like the answer.

Honestly, they don't because they know what reaction they will get. Women only get this shit because we're weaker and easier to bully.

I have seen some men get called transphobic on Twitter but only rarely.

To quote the analogy of LM from the radio interview earlier today, when Sam says he is Sally - most men react with laughter. Only Bromentum and Mr1984 types take this stuff seriously.

I've noticed there is an absence of the usual name calling on the Talk Radio twitter threads. I think this is because most of the commenters are men who usually don't stray into trans discussions.

The TRAs mostly stalk feminist twitter threads because it's easy pickings. Just typical male bullies who run away when a bigger group of males show up.

Or are they not interested in promoting their interests among men? Or is it only biological women they want to go after?

You've identified some of the key points. If trans rights activists started telling men what they are now allowed and not allowed to do, what to say, and what to think, they would hit a wall of opposition that would stop them dead in their tracks. The trans rights activists know this and so avoid attacking men like they attack women.

They go after biological women because they think they can get away with it and any resistance will be token only. Also, if women do try to resist in a more assertive way, the trans rights activists are confident that they will be able to steam roller over this because that's how the world works.

Also bear in mind that there's a non-insignificant grouping within the current trans ideology who seem to hate women and are just motivated to undermine them however they can.

I think they also know that bleating on about feminists is a dog whistle for many men who under other circumstances wouldn't give a shit about LGBT.

It's a way of recruiting to the cause using men who just enjoy the opportunity to call women names without the risk of being held to account for it.

Thanks for your replies. That's exactly it ChocolateCovered, I get why Corbyn et al are jumping on the bandwagon (labour voter all my life - not any more), or men involved in the debate. But what about your normal bog standard bloke? I don't even think they know this is happening. I'm not sure what they'd do about it. I have talked at length about this with my DH and he is still reeling, he had no fucking idea. And he's not a get-involved-in-the-issues type....

I agree that there are many men who don't want to get involved in LGBT rights and roll their eyes at feminism. However if/when this is enshrined in law and Sam comes into the office as Sally the next day - will men also be punished for a hate crime if they guffaw at 'lady penis' or if they use the wrong pronoun? I really want to understand what non woman-hating men think about this. My DH and other men I know are not an adequate sample!

Because, I'm sorry that will be when the shock waves of this will have an impact - when men won't get on board with it at work etc. Sad but true.

Mr1984 Owen Jones is behind much of this. He doesn't like women, he projects the evil inside himself and the evil bullying he endured onto women. He is using tactics he is aware of to harm half the population, the LGBT community and the Labour party because of his self hatred and the bullying he received from various groups.

Also- even the most brocialist of men, if you ask them would they sleep with a transwoman, even one without a penis- the answer would be an emphatic NO.

Would Little owen sleep with a trans man? Would he hell! Even with his untiring belief in self identification. It's only women who have to compromise.

if you ask them would they sleep with a transwoman, even one without a penis- the answer would be an emphatic NO

This is why the whole thing seems madness - why pander to it? The thing that really fucks me off is this convergence of sexuality and transgenderism, that argument that we are an anachronism 'like the people who were against gay marriage etc. 1950s attitudes etc.' and us being on the wrong side of history. Fuck off! This is not about sexuality.

This is why the whole thing seems madness - why pander to it?

Because its a MRA movement and trans is a Trojan horse.

If you set up two accounts on twitter, one with a very male looking profile and name and one very female looking profile and name and they both tweet the same things in relation to trans, I can bet what would happen.

I would like a journalist to actually do this, and then write a story on it.

The results will speak volumes.

They do try a bit with het men, call them transphobic for not wanting to sleep with them.
But I don't think there's a group name as such like TERF that they use.

Charming bunch

I'm on a few very male dominated pages on Facebook and the things that are said about TIMs (all banter) is trabsphobic. Straight men just take it as one big joke. No death threats are ever issued.

The trans movement has shown up how our education and state systems do not allow critical thinking, free though and free speech.

Much of this is discussed in books such as "Smile or die" (though American) www.theguardian.com/books/2010/jan/10/smile-or-die-barbara-ehrenreich and "I find that Offensive" by Claire Fox.

They don't like men rejecting "women" without dicks.

But this is pretty much the only area of contention, and blokes laugh it off as ridiculous and aren't threatened much by it. Transmen in men's spaces are categorically not threat at all (and it fact are the more vulnerable party).

"Women" with dicks who fancy women makes up a great majority of trans people. They can be very threatening and dangerous from a female perspective. Also they want access to all women's space which impacts so many areas of life for women and girls, not limited to sexual relationships.
So they are angry about more things and you hear about it far more.

Without dicks?
*with

Men can and do get away with saying horrible, transphobic rubbish without any repercussions.

I started a thread a week or so ago using the attached video as an example of how men get to be "dicks" and there will be no campaign against them, no death threats or calls to have them fired or excluded anywhere.
Men can easily say what they like, how they like, while being celebrated for it.

DISCLAIMER - I don't agree with the guy in the video - I think he is a dick and a MRA. Last time I posted some people thought I was agreeing with him - I don't. Also, the guy is saying (in a piss-taking way) that he will not accept lady-penis - just as RadFems do - but his comments are full of people agreeing - no one is threatening him at all.

I mentioned this before on another thread - that most men in the "real world" aren't on board the trans bus.
But I was told no, men want to get into women's spaces and trample over women's rights.
I still believe most blokes in the street or workplace don't believe trans women are women.
I post (lurk) on two very male forums. One would be highly transphobic and would react as others have said with hilarity.
The other is very right on and behind trans rights. They ban people for homophobic or transphobic comments.
There seem to be some heated twitter arguments between TRAs and blokey blokes, so I don't think they get away without being called transphobic.

Apparently Miranda Yardley was called a TERF 'recently. Miranda is transexual, tells women not to lie and call him a man.

I post (lurk) on two very male forums

Which ones, if you don't me asking ?