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Word of Mouth Radio 4 today transgender

(52 Posts)
whoputthecatout Tue 13-Feb-18 17:20:00

Did anyone hear this at 4pm today? I was in the car and missed the names of the guests but basically it was half an hour of a trans woman explaining how everything should revolve around trans and other minority groups when it comes to words, language and how we use them.

"Cis" apparently is used to show someone is not trans, as in to show the world that 99.5% of the population has to be explained as not trans. FFS. An oleagenous question from the presenter about whether the trans person could understand why some might be confused or angry about such terms was met with "of course" (as in let me explain it to you silly people) and explained away as in people not wanting to get things - such as pronouns - wrong or simply too entrenched to realise words and language need to change (to satisfy the 0.5% was the unspoken implication).

While lecturing how it was so important to address trans people in the way they wished to be addressed (inclusivity is everything) they seemed blissfully oblivious to the fact that their own rules did not apply to them being equally considerate of the non trans majority.

At this point I arrived home to my relief and switched off. My blood pressure gradually reverted to normal.

I have never heard such self-regarding, narcissistic arrogance dressed up as sweet reason before. But, it is the BBC I suppose. Must be on the right side of history and all that......

morningrunner Tue 13-Feb-18 17:24:54

I just find it so odd that the opposing viewpoint is never presented. It’s like the bbc doesn’t appreciate there is onehmm

OvaHere Tue 13-Feb-18 17:27:26

Sounds like it was this show

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3167351-BBC-R4-Word-of-Mouth-Language-and-Gender-Identity

whoputthecatout Tue 13-Feb-18 17:33:07

Thanks Ova. Yes that was it.

TerfyMcTerface Tue 13-Feb-18 17:36:01

I didn't listen to it. But it sounds like the sort of thing that may have peak-transed a few more people? Most people haven't come across the term "cis" and, when they do, tend not be very embracing of it as a label for themselves.

OrlandoTheMarmaladeCat Tue 13-Feb-18 17:41:57

I heard some of it and was grateful I didn't hear any more. Not sure my blood pressure could have taken it frankly.

NeganLovesLucille Tue 13-Feb-18 17:48:10

FFs. I don't need the 'cis' prefix or natal or any other crap term that TRAs decide I need. I am an adult human female, therefore I am a woman. the only women that need a prefix are those who have transitioned to being a transwoman (different to a woman).

Melamin Tue 13-Feb-18 17:56:51

This is 'advances in human rights' - some humans but regression for many others .

vaginafetishist Tue 13-Feb-18 18:34:48

That was cn lester, she's female and 'gender queer'hmm
Michael Rosen was feeble.

Freshlylaidterf Tue 13-Feb-18 18:43:08

I have never heard such self-regarding, narcissistic arrogance dressed up as sweet reason before. But, it is the BBC I suppose. Must be on the right side of history and all that.
^^ this
I was driving and just caught the last half. It made my blood boil. Although i did think Rosen was gently taking the mickey out of cn at one point near the end.

jeaux90 Tue 13-Feb-18 19:20:20

I heard it. Utter gaslighting bullshit. The reason why some people hate Cis, we all know the answer and so did they.

user187656748 Tue 13-Feb-18 19:26:47

I was disappointed. I like that show and Michael Rosen is generally excellent but this was eggshell walking and simply giving a voice to the guests without having any opposing view. To be fair it was about evolving language rather than the issue in itself.

rb67 Tue 13-Feb-18 19:58:09

Poor Michael. what does one do if one is a good old fashioned liberal faced with such mind numbing nonsense.

The "walking on eggshell" thing is correct. people don't know what they can and cannot say. It leaves a feeling of constant anxiety and powerlessness.
That is classic domestic abuse dynamic. Who knew that could happen!!

vaginafetishist Tue 13-Feb-18 20:07:10

I was driving too! Blood boiling, check.

What he couldn't say was 'you look like a woman though'. The thing about 'my friend Ruth, who's a woman' and that's how you know 'Ruth' is a man. Doublespeak. The amount of translation your mind has to do to understand what's being said. Surely language doesn't work like that?

Stamp your foot and call us all cis bigots.

NotTerfNorCis Tue 13-Feb-18 20:23:15

CN Lester is obviously a woman. I don't think she claims to be a transman? Just 'gender queer ', which means nothing.

Ruffian Tue 13-Feb-18 20:23:56

I listened to it, I usually do. It's a good programme about the uses of language. Interesting stuff from the other contributor about changes in the use of pronouns in English language over time.

It's wearing and a bit silly sounding that someone wants to be referred to constantly as 'they' but, whatever. CN sounded self-obsessed and a bit creepy when explaining how people must be patiently taught not to make mistakes when referring to trans people with the wrong pronoun.

Interesting that CN also noted there had been a big 'pushback' against trans-activism.

vaginafetishist Tue 13-Feb-18 21:25:01

CN Lester insists she is NOT a woman. I don't even think she looks particularly androgynous. Whatever, who cares how you look and dress but the, yes creepy lecturing and education of the public could do with aa more robust response.

vaginafetishist Tue 13-Feb-18 21:26:35

She also describes herself as transsexual, hence her book 'trans like me'

thebewilderness Tue 13-Feb-18 22:33:48

Listening to transgender advocates attempt to justify their beliefs may provide the best refutation possible of transgender advocates beliefs.

CecilyNeville Wed 14-Feb-18 00:43:04

CN describes people on the street being unsure of what she is, and that people who are attracted to her say they are confused by her - and yet everyone who has ever seen her thinks she clearly looks like a perfectly normal woman. Which she does. But it's probably highly offensive to ask someone, 'in what way are you transgender? how do you differ from me? Is it just that I choose not to call myself that?'

hipsterfun Wed 14-Feb-18 01:32:07

Has Laurie Taylor done transgender on Thinking Allowed? If not, he should.

user187656748 Wed 14-Feb-18 07:54:33

I have to say that whilst I have no issue with anyone looking any particular way, that is completely up to them, CN Lester does look like a normal woman. I can't see how anyone would be confused by her as she alleges. Her posed publicity pictures in particular are very 'feminine'

cordeliaflynne Wed 14-Feb-18 10:21:34

I just listened and the thing that struck was that there was no questioning of how the genderqueer people who don't fit in the gendered boxes actually differ from the vast majority of 'cis' people who don't fit into the gendered boxes. This seemed such an obvious missed oportunity but I guess was not really the point of a programme about the use of language.

They did really skirt around the question of why the use of cis would anger people.

I once again come away with the impression that genderqueer etc. just describes the wonderful diversity that is the vast majority of the population and that the only people who are really hung up on putting people in specific gender boxes are they same people who are calling for us to move beyond gender. I can't handle the doublethink required.

CaptainWarbeck Wed 14-Feb-18 10:43:41

I couldn't understand the suggestion that in a more enlightened and inclusive society, we wouldn't label people and insist on putting them in boxes so much.

So why the big push for 'cis'? That has come from the trans population.

MorrisZapp Wed 14-Feb-18 10:52:36

I googled CN Lester but I'm still unsure. Are they a transman or a transwoman?

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