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India Willoughby - Full TERF!!!!

(75 Posts)
MightyMikey Fri 10-Nov-17 08:10:15

Saw this clip of India Willoughby with another transgender woman call Talulah. They were discussing, on This Morning, the implications of the Top Shop policy on gender neutral changing rooms.
From my point I think it's a bit ridiculous that a shop that caters to, mostly, young girls and woman needs space for men identifying as woman - that day/moment.
India was giving arguments that I've heard woman use. I think she really believes she is a biological woman and that others are "pretenders" and so uses arguments that, so-called, TERFS use which I find interesting.

However, I think India has a phobia for hair on either women or men - she didn't like the idea of sharing space with a hairy transgender, she's said in the past women with hairy legs are disgusting and dirty. She does have a thing for the hair smile

Also, why didn't This Morning has a natal woman on to discuss the issue that, after all said and done, effects natal woman and girls.

India Willoughby on This Morning

Anlaf Fri 10-Nov-17 08:24:25

Ha!

Anlaf Fri 10-Nov-17 08:26:07

I think I'm now suffering cognitive dissonance after watching that.

India used the words "emperor's new clothes"

Well well

Fortheloveofscience Fri 10-Nov-17 08:39:47

India Willoughby is interesting - it’s not the first time that she’s said that access to women’s areas/services should be reserved for ‘real’ trans women, and each time she’s been jumped on and had to issue a retraction.

I don’t know how she’s got herself through the mental tangle to convince herself that she is a ‘real’ woman and should be treated as one, but anyone who hasn’t been on her ‘journey’ (ie spent a shitload on surgery and hormones) doesn’t deserve to receive the same. It’s the complete lack of awareness that actually she belongs to the group of ‘biological men who present as women’ rather than ‘women’ I find staggering!

Datun Fri 10-Nov-17 08:51:27

Fortheloveofscience

I agree. India is every bit as much a man as all the others. And it was patently obvious in her interview with Jenni Murray. She came across as entitled and clueless.

But I can totally understand why she is trying to make a distinction between presumably homosexual transsexuals and these bandwagon AGP individuals and snowflakes.

The snowflakes particularly are just showing the whole thing up the nonsense it is.

And good luck to her, really. If it was at all possible to make a distinction, that would be great. But, of course, it isn’t.

What she might have some success with is unwittingly exposing the ideology. Because her credibility, unfortunately, is higher than that of women.

BatShite Fri 10-Nov-17 10:49:51

I can't blame transsexual people for trying to distance themselves from 'transgender' ones to be honest. I genuinely do think 'transgender' makes a mockery of a serious condition.

Though I would disagree (obviously) that India is a 'real woman' because India has had surgeries and such.

Datun Fri 10-Nov-17 11:07:26

It’s the irony of women’s spaces being discussed and the impact of gender neutral changing rooms on the female population, by two men.

Both opining about what makes each of them an authentic female.

Ekphrasis Fri 10-Nov-17 12:06:26

This hurt my brain but thank you Datun, I agree with all you’ve said and couldn’t put it better.

I find it very difficult and confusing (and actually misogynistic) that a woman wasn’t discussing this, at the same time they risked being labelled transphobic and therefore everything that came out of their mouth is to be ignored. (So we can’t really win either way).

Ekphrasis Fri 10-Nov-17 12:08:16

She’s highlighted again how little she understands about ‘gender’ though, as outlined by her JM interview.

terfing Fri 10-Nov-17 12:13:50

India blocked me on Twitter after I congratulated Jennie on standing up to them. I didn't even include India's handle in the tweet, so they must have been searching their own name.

silkpyjamasallday Fri 10-Nov-17 12:20:38

I agree with Datun, it's pretty shocking that when discussing something which overwhelmingly affects women and girls, that they give two men who present themselves as women the platform.

India actually seemed to have some good points, even sounding like a TERF as you said in the OP. I actually know Talulah Eve through a friend incidentally, it saddens me that they are unable to accept that women may feel uncomfortable with having a pre op trans person in their private spaces, and instead Talulahs feelings of hurt at being excluded should trump the actual danger women could and have faced because of gender neutral spaces. I don't know if Talulah has had bottom surgery, or if she believes having fake breasts stuck under her skin counts as post op.

silkpyjamasallday Fri 10-Nov-17 12:31:19

Ah didn't mean to post so soon. I don't think that both India and Talulahs 'need' to use female spaces shows them in a very good light to the sisterhood that they want to belong to. It's the same misogynistic attitude of men that their womanhood is more valid than that of natal women, and we should be silenced for our bigotry in not wanting men in sex segregated spaces. Talulah seemed to accept that women wouldn't want 'perverts' in their spaces, but how exactly are we supposed to tell them apart from those suffering gender dysphoria if it's just up to individuals to decide how they identify? Also stating that it's the message of equality rather than the practicalities that are important, well maybe to them, but not to the natal women that risk rape or assault from men who will have free access to our spaces.

This whole thing is starting to make me really really angry. Women need to be given a platform to express concerns, not just spout about feelz. But of course women expressing these views will receive rape and death threats by the thousand, and are silenced and no platformed. I despair.

MightyMikey Fri 10-Nov-17 12:45:30

Sorry, just realised this clip is from Good Morning Britain and not This Morning.
Wonder if IW will get any of the transgender fury, the same as a natal woman would.
I wonder if the reason no woman was on to debate against the gender neutral space is because they know that, without a doubt, the abuse and harassment they will receive. Also it could have a high chance of damaging their careers (especially if their living is in the public arena). So no woman would risk debating anything Transgender.
Or it could be as simple as no natal woman was asked.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 Fri 10-Nov-17 12:57:21

So in a segment about womens changing areas and who should use them the program decided the best thing to do was have two trans gender women discuss it...no natal women

I havent seen it, but i always thought these sorts of things were supposed to be balanced

MissMoneyPlant Fri 10-Nov-17 13:05:06

Wow.

As a Terry Pratchett fan, I am reminded of the Discworld character who believes he is in fact Lord Vetinari, and ends up in psychiatric hospital in the "Lord Vetinari" ward, with all the other deluded men who think they are Lord Vetinari...

India's journey to TERFdom is interesting. It's like a speeded up version of what many of us have been through. I was a teen when Shania Twain's "Man, I feel like a woman" was released and I remember singing along and totally getting it. Ha! blush Then I continued to live as a woman in this world and the penny dropped, slowly and painfully. I expect this will happen for a lot of transwomen.

I'm also beginning to suspect that the line between AGP and gender dysphoria is not as distinct as we might like to think.

Mooncuplanding Fri 10-Nov-17 13:25:37

Wow, full TERF

Head going to explode

Can't make head nor tail of how this has occurred

MorrisZapp Fri 10-Nov-17 13:27:26

India is hilarious. Her terfdom is the predictable consequence of a movement that says nobody is anything unless they say they are.

Datun Fri 10-Nov-17 13:37:09

MorrisZapp

India is hilarious. Her terfdom is the predictable consequence of a movement that says nobody is anything unless they say they are.

I’d LOVE to see India define the word woman that includes India, but excludes other men who identify as women.

Doobigetta Fri 10-Nov-17 13:51:36

At least India was vaguely aware that other people exist. I think you could probably smack Talullah round the face with every actual woman in the world without her noticing.

FizzyWaterAndElderflower Fri 10-Nov-17 14:58:51

I’d LOVE to see India define the word woman that includes India, but excludes other men who identify as women

This has actually always been my pitch when talking to people who declare 'transwomen are women' I ask them to come up with a definition of woman that includes me, and transwomen, but not my male partner or sons - no-one's managed it yet

MrsTerryPratchett Fri 10-Nov-17 15:04:33

@MissMoneyPlant I seem to remember SirTP saying that that has based on real scenarios when they would put two Jesuses or Napoleons together. To see if it helped or hindered.

It clearly doesn't help grin

Datun Fri 10-Nov-17 15:11:26

FizzyWaterAndElderflower

Well exactly. But even if you adhere to their very own definition of ‘a woman is anyone who says they’re a woman’, they can’t possibly exclude other transwomen.

Georgie Orwell got it right in 1984 and animal farm.

“All transwomen are equal, but some are more equal than others”

Ereshkigal Fri 10-Nov-17 19:18:06

I'm also beginning to suspect that the line between AGP and gender dysphoria is not as distinct as we might like to think.

I don't think it is particularly. I think a lot of younger transactivists claiming gender dysphoria (often who have other comorbid conditions) are quite AGP.

Datun Fri 10-Nov-17 20:26:46

It must be the difference between rejecting masculinity and embracing femininity.

Gender dysphoric people might reject masculinity and go for the next option.

Whereas AGP individuals cut out the first part and just go for the femininity.

It’s also whether or not you have a fetish. There is nothing to suggest people who are AGP don’t have gender dysphoria, but it would be statistically small.

Having gender dysphoria does not give them the fetish.

CaptainWarbeck Fri 10-Nov-17 23:48:56

But you know what, we've been saying that it would be a start if transwomen stood up for women's rights, which India is doing here.

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