India Willoughby - Full TERF!!!!

[MightyMikey]

Saw this clip of India Willoughby with another transgender woman call Talulah. They were discussing, on This Morning, the implications of the Top Shop policy on gender neutral changing rooms.
From my point I think it's a bit ridiculous that a shop that caters to, mostly, young girls and woman needs space for men identifying as woman - that day/moment.
India was giving arguments that I've heard woman use. I think she really believes she is a biological woman and that others are "pretenders" and so uses arguments that, so-called, TERFS use which I find interesting.

However, I think India has a phobia for hair on either women or men - she didn't like the idea of sharing space with a hairy transgender, she's said in the past women with hairy legs are disgusting and dirty. She does have a thing for the hair :)

Also, why didn't This Morning has a natal woman on to discuss the issue that, after all said and done, effects natal woman and girls.

I thought it was interesting. I could be completely wrong but I think India because of her circumstances sees this as doubly wrong.

She wouldn't have used the female changing room when she was Jonathan. It would have been wrong of Jonathan to do so. Jonathan might be India now but the concept of wrongness is still there but she is looking at it from the other side.

India has made an effort. I don't mean that in a nasty way. Her transition must have been physically painful and emotionally difficult. I'm not clear if she thinks herself as a transgender woman or a woman but she definitely thinks there is a difference between real transgender people and the person stamping his Mary Janes as she put it.

The one in the pink wig is clueless 😐 ... hurts to hear him speak. Sounds devoid of intelligence.

The other person makes sense...

Question: is natal woman a term now? And why?

India is not standing up for women. India is standing up for India.

India thinks that women who don’t shave are dirty. And she doesn’t get why she thinks that.

She called Jenni Murray a dinosaur, a bigot, a pantomime dame, set up a petition for her to be sacked and said something along the lines of she’s past it and needs a makeover.

India was incandescent with fury because Jenni Murray said she had benefited from male privilege.

India is a man who not only reinforces gender stereotypes, she doesn’t even realise she’s doing it. She’s as blind as any other man. Because she relies on those stereotypes.

She wants to ring fence what it means to be a transwoman because it’s getting diluted and she’s losing her position in the hierarchy. Her privilege is slipping.

The last person I need representing me and my views is India Willoughby.

People like Miranda Yardley, I agree. Miranda does not want to use women’s spaces. And does not insist on speaking for me ‘as a woman’. India does. And as ever, it’s from a strictly male point of view.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/india-willoughby-bigot-dame-jenni-should-be-fired-for-attack-on-trans-women-35503495.html

Maybe someone could start a position to have India sacked after being such an awful bigot about gender fluid people?

I know! The double standards are breathtaking.

Agree, but I think India knows what the majority of the population think about these issues and is taking a gamble that people will see the older India who's been on Loose Women etc as one of those transsexuals who "just want to live their lives" and differentiate between that and the more overt narcissism we see from the genderfluid and younger trans crowd.

Datun with you 100%. India doesn’t want to stand up for women’s rights, only her own rights and privileges. It’s her own interest that she thinks is being threatened by the growing ridiculousness of the trans lobby.

Old school transsexuals like India want gatekeeping just as much as women do. India thinks it's ridiculous that some man can put on a dress and claim to be a woman when India had to have all kinds of surgery and other treatment and actually wants to pass as a female.
It's not logically consistent but I have more time for the India type than the Travis type.

To be clear - I don't have time for India himself, but the India type of transsexual

Datun - Stunningly put, I was trying to put into words how I felt about IW and you've gone and put it in a way that's clear and logical.
Re the use of Natal, I used natal (born woman) because it sounds a whole lot more authentic than the made-up "Cis" woman business. But I agree that we shouldn't have to use anything in front of woman. Yet some how, when writing about Trans issues, saying "man/woman" gets confusing based on who you talk to and their personal politics around the transgender debate.

Agree, but I think India knows what the majority of the population think about these issues and is taking a gamble that people will see the older India who's been on Loose Women etc as one of those transsexuals who "just want to live their lives" and differentiate between that and the more overt narcissism we see from the genderfluid and younger trans crowd.

India is going for acceptance from the majority, the general public - not the younger trans community - who really dont like India. India passes well and has their career back on track - so they’d rather make it in the big bad real world than tiny echo chamber trans world.

Also agree eith everything Datun said on India. India is shallow and self absorbed. Their timeline is so femininely cringey. A 50 something posting pouting sexy selfy after selfy.

Oh and India blocked me too! Still pop in for a look as her fights with the trans crew are funny.

I'm blocked by India too. Will have a look later but has India had flak from TAs for the GMB comments?

mikey

Re the use of Natal, I used natal (born woman) because it sounds a whole lot more authentic than the made-up "Cis" woman business. But I agree that we shouldn't have to use anything in front of woman. Yet some how, when writing about Trans issues, saying "man/woman" gets confusing based on who you talk to and their personal politics around the transgender debate.

Whilst I agree it can become confusing. That’s because the word woman is being diluted.

It needs resisting. Every step of the way.

It does. Better to call them trans identified males than trans women. I try not to use the word woman ever. That is the crux of the problem here.

Ereshkigal

I agree. I’ve got to get out of the habit of saying transwomen.

It makes conversations feel far less Orwellian. But marks you out immediately as a TERF. But I'd rather not gaslight myself. Heigh ho.

It's like Pais Lees and her trans friendly 'female' island.

twitter.com/parislees/status/929091184567480324

jellyfrizz

I don’t understand what Lees is hoping to gain from that post. She’s into men, isn’t she?

And she’s highly misogynistic. It must be her worst nightmare to be surrounded by women.

Unless she’s talking about women like her, who are men attracted to men?

I thought Paris Lee was all for cat calling and general harassment of women 🤷‍♀️

Having gender dysphoria does not give them the fetish.

I was thinking about this, and isn’t it a possibility that the ‘fetish’ is an outcome of dysphoria that has been suppressed and become distorted in order for it to somehow be accommodated? And there may truth in what AGPs say about how they ‘always’ felt that way?

hipsterfun

I don’t think they always did feel this way. They felt this way when puberty kicked in and sexual arousal became a thing.

... at least, that’s what I have inferred from the narratives I have read. They started to get off on it about the point where people start to feel a sexual awakening.

Ah, ok, so with the AGPs, they don’t have feelings of brain/body mismatch as children, though they may later claim they did?

I don’t know a great deal about the psychology/neurology of fetishes. It’s interesting, though!

I think it's possible that some men feel sex dysphoria in childhood and then this becomes sexualised during puberty. It would make sense in a way - at the exact same time their bodies are becoming more obviously male (thus ramping up the dysphoria) their sexual feelings are waking up. Result: AGP fetish.

I don’t know a great deal about the psychology/neurology of fetishes. It’s interesting, though!

Just thinking the same, hipster! We should have a thread. My impression is that fetishes are an almost entirely male thing, aside from women into BDSM.