Punching Terfs

[AssignedMentalAtBirth]

twitter.com/helenlewis/status/879622400631025664

Helen Lewis is getting dog's abuse, mostly from men, because she objects to someone having "I punch TERFs" on their tshirt. I like her, listen to the NS podcast and always impressed with her. I think she's brave to tweet about this but it's a bloody minefield. I really am struggling with the left wing on this issue. That and all the no platforming, compelled speech etc. I thought I was left wing but I think I am more liberal, in the classic sense. e.g. Free speech and all that, which doesn't include threats of violence if you don't agree with what someone says. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Transactivism is very much of the individualist persuasion - that you are the most important person, and fuck society - that's right wing, conservative, look after yourself and sod everyone else.

I have been reading a lots about this and it appears to be Identity Politics that is at the source of a lot of left wing views now, and that various groups are being asked to consider their privilege and it's all a bit oppression olympics. As a (apparently) middleclass white female, am I to STFU about politics and only listen to those more oppressed than me? This assumes I have had a privileged life, when I certainly have not had. Also, there seems to be a demand for equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity which is too left wing for me

Sorry, probably all over the place here, just trying to process a lots if ideas

It is pretty scary how this is increasing. From the "terf stomper" badges on Etsy, to all the violent threats on Twitter, that often involve rape . The march in the US with males twirling rainbow baseball bats, calling themselves "trans dykes". The acceptable, supposedly leftie, face of misogyny and violence against women and girls. Abortion called "Cis Privilege" . Seemingly a lot of MtoT really loathe women and see lesbians as a sexual challenge to validate their own self-branded "lesbian" status.

process lots of ideas

Thanks for responding.

I think misogyny pervades all political wings of this country really, I suppose I am a bit wary of saying it is either right or left wing. It is the position that being left wing is inherently the 'moral' choice that leads some left wing people to ally themselves with transactivism without thinking things through properly.

I don't know, I am just rambling.

I found this on the original thread
Looks like it's ok to punch TERFs as so many of them don't identify as women. So it's not violence against women. WTF

Here is the pinkhaired one (beside him in another photo), holding a pink baseball bat and marching beside someone wearing a degenderettes jacket. Nice

Sorry...
www.instagram.com/p/BVy9UW8DLbu/

Personally I actually think trans politics is more right wing and regressive than they are left wing

I agree that TR activism is regressive and (small c) conservative. However I do think that it is being enabled by the left wing more than the right at present. That doesn't correlate to political parties necessarily though - Maria Miller being a prime example. It is frightening how many (small l) liberals and left-wing people seem blindly to accept that statements like "my penis is female" are not only ok, but that questioning them is bigotry.

I also continue to be astonished that gay men are not making more of a fuss about trans-ing gay teenagers. The LGB movement has always put men ahead of women, so I'm not really surprised that gay men aren't defending lesbians but you'd think they would be opposed to telling 'effeminate' boys that they are actually girls.

Not just teenagers shinynewusername.

Remember Ada Wells? The LGBT officer at Edinburgh Uni.

Misogyny is part of what keeps the entire system male-centric. So I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by men on either side.

Well left or right, he's fucking disgusting
gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/09/04/dear-folk-singer-mya-byrne-masturbating-in-your-sisters-underwear-makes-you-a-predator-not-a-woman/

patodp
But how do you know this man is left wing?
No one is saying he is. But lots of men who claim to be left wing openly support the anti TERF rhetoric. They are the men being called out by the post.

I think misogyny pervades all political wings of this country really

It does absolutely (and the entire world actually), but I agree with shiny that this particular brand of it is being enabled mostly by the left.

BTW, in a tweet directly below the one calling out the T-shirt wearer, Helen Lewis agrees that this person is a 'woman', which pretty much undermines her entire argument. If we can't name this situation for what it is - a man proudly threatening violence against women - we have no real grounds for protesting it, nor any hope of combatting the misogyny of the broader trans movement.

Pretty sure he doesn't self-identify as a man though.. sorry both of you, you are now TERFs and apparently get to be punched, and plenty of twitter says it's fine to say that.

Do I get to escape that punching by not identifying as a TERF? I mean they can't question my right to decide what I am, right?

It is true that many people on the left subscribe to the trans party line. I'm a leftie and hang out in circles that couldn't really be more leftist and Ive had a few conversations with people who clearly want to virtue signal about their belief in the trans ideology. This is where it's interesting to me because this type of virtue signalling is typically leftist as it is predicated on:

1. A default setting - always take the side of the the underdog, whoever they seem to be. Even if their values do not match your own or even conflict with them.
2. Being afraid of other people's disapproval, specifically other leftists.
3. Being terrified of being called a bigot or being caught out having a perceived conservative belief.
4. Another default setting - The economic revolution always comes first. Women will have to wait.

I'm conservative and I would support TERFs and am against the current radical trans activist agenda. I think many (not all) can fail to acquire joined up thinking. It's more important to be seen to be on the right side of an issue without realising that one can't simultaneously be pro-woman AND pro-trans.

It happens in other areas too a lot of people on the left are very vocal about the environment and climate change, but utterly unaware it seems that deficit spending will skyrocket the rate of consumption and massively impacting our carbon footprint.

I don't mind those on the left who can weigh up the issues and take a stand on what they believe is most important to prioritise, but I can't stand it when they try to be 'right on' with everything. Sometimes certain positions are mutually exclusive. Try to point that out and they'll ad hominem or try to shut down debate.

I'd rather side with feminism over trans activism, not because I hate trans people, but because women make up 50% of the population.

Being serious though, do these people not realise that wearing clothes which declare that they attack women is much more of a male thing to do than a female?

Oh, actually, there are women doing it, too.

(Granted, the woman who went into a temper tantrum and threatened me with death identified as nonbinary, so I guess at least she was consistent. ... though if I ever have the misfortune of having to talk to her again, I consider using male pronouns, and pointing out that if I am not allowed to refer to her actual sex, I will refer to her by the pronouns that fit her presentation. Being aggressive and misogynist is very masculine.)

Dervel yes I agree. I'm not sure it's always been like this though. The left used to deal with real problems instead of imaginary ones. I'm quite old and remember anti Apartheid, Greenpeace, The Miner's Strike, all great causes.

I think your point about being seen to be right is spot on. It's a massive failure of the left that being perceived to be RIGHT is more important than actually doing the right thing. I don't agree about climate change and environmental work though, it's the most important thing, more important than money, and that's where the conservative/market liberals fall down isn't it? Because if you can make money at something it must be ok.

Personally I don't feel on the left or right, I feel like a feminist and both sides have let women down. I'm a committed centrist but admitting that would get me lynched in some of the circles I move in as a "red tory".

Yes I wholeheartedly agree with you Dervel. I'm not a conservative but I try to apply logic and compassion when taking a view and trans ideology and the left's support of it lacks both. The view that they are so oppressed that their demands trump everyone else's is not one I can subscribe to. And yes, the left's view to take the 'underdog's side means everyone is shouting underdog even when they are bullying and threatening women into sex and into submission.

And the no platforming is beyond reason. I can't support attacks on free speech and the left seem to be disappearing down that rabbit hole at an alarming pace.

The Helen Lewis twitter thread is so depressing. All those apologists for male violence convinced that they are the decent ones.

This
Dan‏ @fjksdf50_ 41m41 minutes ago
Replying to @helenlewis

Helen Lewis is a TERF, hence her always trying to frame it like this.

Free speech! Violence against bigots is wrong! Nope.
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Ugh, it's very 'she's a witch so she would say that,' isn't it?

I think the abuse and the violence and threats of violence is what has really alarmed me. The idea that it more honourable to punch people or prevent people from speaking on the because you don't agree with them is terrifying and well on the road to totalitarianism. But so many 'left wing' people seem to think this. It's not something I can support or align myself with.

Ugh, it's very 'she's a witch so she would say that,' isn't it?

It really is a witch hunt.

It has everything needed for a proper witch hunt.

In some parts of Africa, men believe that witches can steal their penises. Of course the penis of the men thus afflicted is still there, but they insist that it is just an illusion.

... rather similar to the trans who claim that despite their whole body being very clearly male, they are truly women. Or vice versa.