This is a Premium feature
To use this feature subscribe to Mumsnet Premium - get first access to new features see fewer ads, and support Mumsnet.Start using Mumsnet Premium
Court with my fiances ex :((107 Posts)
I found this site whilst googling and hope someone can help
My fiancé and his ex are currently going through court about access arrangements for his 2 daughters. He has put in an application for shared care (full 50/50). We currently only have them 1 night a week. He sees them on a Monday for tea (takes them to his mums) then on a Thursday and Friday he works 6am-2pm so he picks them up from school those days. On a Thursday he drops them home at 8.30/9pm and then they sleep over on a Friday, returning home at 3pm Saturday. He now wants them with us Monday, Thursday and Friday over night every week, with a Saturday overnight added every second week. I want to support him but in reality its not practical at all!
We live a 30minute drive from them and their school, its longer with traffic. I don’t drive and I have my own daughter (12yrs) to get to school in the morning before I go to work.
Im completely torn and cant help feeling he is doing this for all the wrong reasons!
His daughters are 11yrs and 9yrs old. He and his ex split up almost 4 years ago now, she left him and he thinks she was cheating (she had a new man and was pregnant within 3 months). They had been separated for 8 months when I met him. He was left paying a lot of debt when she left. A personal loan for £15,000 that they got to renovate their house, and a car loan of around the same. He lost his house after she left him as he couldn’t keep up with the mortgage so he got no money from that and he stupidly put both the loans in his own name when they were together so he had no come back on those. She took the car with her when she left, then denied having it when he tried to transfer that loan to her. He couldn’t prove the car was hers and the kids told him she didn’t have it any more but he never found out where it went. He is still paying these loans now.
Because he was paying the loans, he wasn’t paying her any maintenance. She seems to think he has access to an endless pot of money. She wasn’t happy not getting maintenance and went to the CMS. They awarded her 16% of his gross wages a month. He changed jobs at the end of last year. The CMS recently did a review and his ex has been awarded an extra £130 per month. He is absolutely furious about this and this is what has spurred him to go to court for 50/50
We are not rolling in money by any means. He pays out a small fortune each month on those loans, due to defaults when he was signed of work ill, they now come to over £600. and when you add in the maintenance, our rent and other bills and just day to day living expenses, there isn’t a lot left at all at the end of the month. We cant afford to pay her any more money. We simply don’t have it. CMS don’t care about outgoings, they just take what they want from the top amount
The relationship between my fiancé and his ex has always been extremely fragile, it completely broke down when he reported her to social services (before I met him) for neglect. They found no concerns (I don’t believe there ever would be, the girls have the life of riley there) and his complaint was marked as malicious. He has admitted to me that he was trying get the girls removed from her care to hurt her. The girls were told what he had done and refused to see him for months. When I met him he was trying to re-establish contact and they were battling access out through their lawyers. They reached the current agreement and that has been in place since (no court order).
The girls live with their mum, her boyfriend that she left my partner for and their son. They also have an Auntie that is very (overly so, I feel) involved in their lives. Auntie has a daughter the same age as mine (12yrs) who also spends a very minimal amount of time with her own father. The girls spend a huge amount of time at their Aunties (their
houses are walking distance apart). They refer to their cousin as their sister and will correct you if you if you say shes their cousin. Auntie is loaded. She seems to have endless amounts of cash to spare. She is very glamorous, gorgeous, has a fast car and is just oh so cool. She is all about big hair, make up, designer sunnies and ripped jeans. Both of the girls worship the ground she walks on. They sleep over there several times a week, even on school nights. She takes them on holidays and constant weekends away, usually meaning my fiancé misses his Friday contact. When my fiancé put his foot down one weekend and said they couldn’t go and had to come to ours, they were a nightmare the full weekend, then we didn’t see them for nearly 3 weeks because they were mad with him!
There are also a lot of things we don’t agree with regarding how they are being brought up, but whenever we try to put our parenting views across, or enforce our rules, they just stop coming. They are “ill” or have “a birthday party” or are at Aunties house instead. The youngest especially blows off a lot of time with dad in favour of Auntie and regularly starts sentences “When im bigger and live with (Auntie)…….”
That was the reason my fiancé actually started court proceeding in the first place. He was initially just trying to get a court order put in place for his current (already agreed for almost 3 years) contact so that he has some clout over his time with his children and could try and make them come when they are supposed to. He is seen as so unimportant and they pick and choose when to come and spend time here.
They say that its boring here and we never take them anywhere. This is true, but its because we have no money left after paying their mums debts and the maintenance. We cant afford days out and trips to the cinema and I feel like when we do give them things or take them places, they don’t appreciate it because its not as good or exciting as what they get from mum and Auntie
He had already applied for that and it was in the process of going though when the maintenance review happened and their mum got awarded the extra money. He then changed his application to complete 50/50 care, meaning there should be no maintenance paid at all. I completely see where he is coming from. We simply cannot afford to pay out more money every month (his mum is paying his lawyer as we are so broke ) but if he gets the 50/50, then the practical logistics of getting his girls to school from here in the morning are not possible. Especially on the Friday morning when my fiancé starts work at 6am. He is talking about having his mum come over and pick them up (she lives close to the girls mum, so she would be driving here to pick them up and drop them at school on a Tuesday and a Friday morning) but she doesn’t keep well at all and is currently under investigation for some sort of heart problem, they were talking about a bypass, so I really don’t think its fair to put that on her. She doesn’t like driving at the best of times, never mind an hours round trip in morning rush hour.
He was at court today and the judge has ordered that the girls have to be asked what they want, so there is someone from the court being sent out to talk to them at their mums, about their wishes. The girls have already said they don’t want anymore over nights, and the judge basically said today that what my fiancé was proposing was too much and would be quite disruptive to the girls, so I really don’t think it will go to full 50/50 shared care but that doesn’t help our financial situation. They are back in court in early October
On one hand, 50/50 care would help our finances (ie get rid of the maintenance payment, or at least greatly reduce it) and free up some cash, but practically it would be a nightmare. Its also not what the girls want
But on the other hand, if access stays as it is just now, we are completely screwed from a financial point of view. His mum is already paying his lawyer and my mum has already helped us out. This was the first month with the higher maintenance payment. We don’t get paid till the 27th July and we have £85 left in the bank. My fiancé needs diesel and we need to do a food shop. That £85 should be £215 and we would normally get by, but I don’t know what we are going to do this month
I also don’t see why we should be paying all that money to their mum when the girls seem to spend the majority of the time with their Auntie
I just really don’t know what to do
I get the impression your partner doesn't have much respect for females.
My ex maliciously report me to social services too. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever and I'm not surprised his kids have said they don't want much to do with him. Boo boo for him. He should be bloody ashamed. Tell him to go back to step change and sort out a new payment plan and try to be a better human being.
Op - even giving your dp the benefit of the doubt & assume he's sorry for what he did in reporting her - he is now seeking 50/50 to save money, to ease his guilt & for him to see his kids. None of these are good enough reasons to disrupt the routine his kids have been in for years! Unless he stops thinking of himself & starts thinking of what's best for his kids this is NEVER going to end well. He & his ex have too much unresolved & bitter history & you will be forever caught in their drama.
If you have any sense & self respect leave now. This man & this situation are just not worth it.
Sounds like his own kids don't want to see him because he's not a nice man.
The type of man who would fuck his own children over to avoid paying the legal minimum to support them and cause them upset by dragging through court and having social services called out is a man I would be running a million miles from.
He took out the loans in his name so they were always his responsibility to pay. That isn't his children's fault and it doesn't make child support optional.
Not sure how he can't prove the car isn't his either. Surely it's registered to him at his address so he should have reported it stolen? If he gave her the car and it's always been registered to her and logbook on her name then she's the legal owner.
He sounds like my Dad to be honest. A proper arsehole.
Does he also go on about how she never tidied up enough and he's come home from work to a messy house etc? Over twenty years after splitting up from my Mum and his wife and him still went on about my Mam every single time I saw him.
Oh OP, red flags. You really need to take a step back. What he has done to her, he will have no hesitation in doing to you.
Over twenty years after splitting up from my Mum and his wife and him still went on about my Mam every single time I saw him
Oh that made me laugh. Exactly my ex. Same ex who has repeatedly reported me to Social Services, not paid maintenance at all, and who dragged me through court for residence of our children - he seemed to think they would be handed over to him just because he asked. OP, these guys have a script and they follow it. More importantly, they don’t change.
*Over twenty years after splitting up from my Mum and his wife and him still went on about my Mam every single time I saw him*
OP, I'm sorry to say but your OH is likely to have lied to you about the debts. He didn't pay his mortgage, didn't pay maintenance until forced, defaulted on the loans, these are the classic action of a man who doesn't manage his money well and lies about his situation to save face.
The loans don't make sense. If he got a loan for house repairs, it would have increased he value of the house when sold and he could have repaid it or at least a good chunk of it that way. Most likely it had nothing to do with the house. As for the car loan, maybe he did get one for her car but won't have said that she took a loan to repay his debts too.
I left my ex because of his lies re. his finances and a rrued debts. When he got with his new girlfriend, he made up stories too about me to explain his debts when he had to come clean a put them, she believed him and was very judgemental of me. Inevitably, she finally realised how bad he was with money, and started to question his debts. They broke up for a while over it before getting back together but after that, she was much better with me.
The à tion of yuor boyfriend scream of me me me. He wants more time with the girls, who are bored with him, so that he pays less maintenance. The girls are old enough to come to understand this, and what kid wouldn't resent a parent who only want them more often to pay less? And what will happen when all your bills will increase, he has to pay half for their mobiles, clothes (expensive when they become teenagers), school uniform, pocket money, activities, transport etc... There won't be much saving left if any from what he pays now in maintenance.
Your boyfriend is very deluded and wasting his time and money. He should focus on spending better quality times with his girls before they get to that age when they really won't want to come at all and there'll be nothing he can do about it but cry and feel sorry for himself.
Surely he would have sold the house when they split and used his half to pay off the debts?
And then paid maintenance like any decent father.
He doesn't want his kids more often, he wants to stick it to his ex.
Does he make the effort with the girls when they're with you?
Do you maintenance from your DD's dad?
Christ. This situation is so similar to my ex apart from a few details. I don't understand how his gf can stay with him after maliciously reporting me to SS saying I had munchausens by proxy and was emotionally harming the children. There was a full safeguarding review unbeknown to me but they found no evidence of this. That was 6 years ago. She stayed with him after that and had 2 kids with him. Then she's stayed with him through a restraining order I've had against him and him dragging me to court about 14 times. According to the children he's now abusive towards her. He recently made noises about 50:50. My solicitor laughed as he's not even there on the weekends he has them now and gets his dad and gf to collect them from school.
Wouldn't it be interesting to hear your partner's ex tell her side of the story because I bet there was abuse too. He's a shit dad and his kids know it. And you know it too. Get rid of him.
You aren't getting the answers you expected because you are too close to the situation and are not being objective.
He's admitted making false allegations against his ex that could have meant she lost her children if they had been believed.
He wants more contact with his children, not to spend time with them, but so he doesn't have to pay maintenance. Does he realise raising children isn't free. Cloths, school trips, food, extra curricular activities etc all cost money.
His solution to how to get his children to school several times a week if he gets this contact is to make his mum, who possibly has a serious heart condition and doesn't even like driving, do an hour round trip every time.
What makes you think what he says about the cause of the debts is true? Looking at the examples you have given here he isn't exactly honest or trustworthy.
Take a step back and ask yourself if you would want your child or friend to be in a relationship with the man you describe.
Sounds like they both mismanaged the money when they were together so he can't pass that debt on to her. That's his obligation. Your obsession with the cousins is odd - quite nice they are a close family.
Run and don't stop running. Don't inflict this waste of space on your daughter.
He doesn’t really want the best for his children, it’s all about getting back at the ex.
Why does he want to disrupt their routine?
Why are the dcs bored with their father? How does he spend time with them?
No matter how exciting an aunt is, she could never take the place of a loving and caring dad. He needs to step up and be a decent father.
Op, how would you feel if he was your DD’s dad and did all that?
And you want to marry this piece of shit?
Where the hell are your standards?
You have your own child to think about. Think of her if you won't think of yourself.
He needs to sue her for half the loans - that's the important thing
Then he'll be able to afford child support
How much is left on the loans?
He needs to go back and tell them he’s struggling financially and reduce his payments.
I have nothing to say about the rest of it.
He has to financially contribute towards his daughters. You realise if they come live with you fifty percent of the time, you’ll need to buy them clothes, food, they’ll be need their own space in the house, beds etc? It will most likely be more expensive in the long run unless you’re hoping they’ll be running back and forth between homes with suitcases permanently.
If the car has disappeared has your fiancé reported it stolen? I would. Its his car presumably he’s the registered owner, if I woke up to find our car gone I’d report it to the police. Not just gormlessly continue paying for it.
None of your post sounds right.
I’d would not marry a man who’s so nasty and vindictive and who wants his own children to be put into care because he doesn’t get on with their mum.
He didn't sell the house, it was repossessed.
He was signed off work with a blood clot and then depression, he had no money coming is except ssp and couldn't (or didn't) pay the mortgage. So the bank took the house. It was sold for a fraction of its worth at an auction and the money from it only just cleared the mortgage.
The house was in both their names and neither of them made anything from the sale. I know this is true, I've seen the paperwork. The renovations weren't finished when it was sold, so no added value
It was during this time that he reported her. He regrets it, and sought help after he did it as he knew it was wrong.
The 50/50 thing isn't just about the money. Its about having a relationship with his children. He misses them. Obstacles have been put in the way of him seeing them since she left. Their time with her and their Auntie and cousin are prioritised over contact with dad. He just wants to see them when he is supposed to
As for taking them for walks and doing free things with them, the girls aren't interested. They don't want to do things like that. Everything we suggest, they say is boring. Days out to them aren't a trip to the park, or going for a picnic. They are used to being taken to Alton Towers or Drayton Manor etc and no expense being spared. They have been to every theme park in the uk several times, and won't accept a trip to the park as a day out
There are a lot of things we don't agree with regards to how they are being brought up, they regularly miss school for example to go in these weekends away and holidays. Their attendance isn't great at all. When we brought it up with their mum she doesn't care. She actually said she would rather they were having fun than cooped up in a classroom writing. You can't just choose not to go to school
My daughters dad pays me maintenance yes, but we agreed it between ourselves and I would never put him in the situation where he couldn't afford to live through paying me. When his mum died last year he took it really bad and was off work for 3 months. I never took any maintenance from him because for 2 of those months he didn't have a lot coming in.
After tax, NI, pension etc my DPs take home pay is around 1800. Once he has paid the loans and new maintenance payments he is only left with around £800 that needs to cover half of all our bills, his diesel etc and let him try and live. Its not reasonable. I have spoken to him this morning about the loans and he is going to contact step change again.
I think the car situation is hopeless. We don't know where the car went. It just disappeared. The girls just said she didn't have it anymore but they didn't know where it went either.
The court basically said yesterday that what he was proposing was too disruptive and wouldn't be granted. So I imagine when they have spoken to the girls and they say they don't want to come any extra, it won't be granted anyway.
I just need to find a way to sort out the finances
The car disappeared over 3 years ago now. His ex was the registered keeper of it so I don't think reporting it stolen would achieve anything.
He tried to get that loan transferred to her, but the loan wasn't through a finance company, so it couldn't be matched up to the car. It's a bank loan (I know that's true as i went through it all the last time we contacted step change). He basically took a bank loan to pay for the car, then was paying back the loan to the bank
Ex denied all knowledge of it and as it was in his name there was nothing else he could do
This man is an utter arse. Do not marry him or have children with him or you will soon find yourself in the position his ex is now in.
He doesn't "just want to see his kids", he wants to get out of paying maintenance.
Two things should be ringing alarm bells with you loud and clear:
1) His malicious report to social services of his ex. Thankfully they didn't believe him and the children weren't taken into care.
This makes him a vindictive and spiteful arsehole. He isn't ashamed of himself. He is embarassed that they saw him for who and what he actually is, and he is looking to hook in his next victim now (you, if you aren't very careful).
2) His kids don't want overnight stays or the arrangement he is proposing and have actually said this. They also regularly don't come over. Don't seem to want regular contact.
I would bet that this is actually because they don't like him that much, are uncomfortable with his attitudes and behaviours and just don't want even more if it.
He also expects his Mum to do the running around to facilitate his whims despite her serious health condition!!! What the fuck!!??
If he was genuinely worried about how his daughters were being brought up he wouldn’t repeatedly make his relationship with their mother worse
And nor would he have spitefully gone for a disruptive contact that he can’t even accommodate.
That application for 50:50 was spite. Pure and simple. If it was about his relationship with his children he’d have considered the impact on them before doing it.
You need to lose the opinion that the maintenance is too much. It’s his first bill. It’s not loans and maintenance. It’s maintenance then everything else
And for covering half hour bills - you need to have a lifestyle you can both afford. Not have a lifestyle and then work out what he can afford for his kids.
And you not taking money from your ex for a couple of months has no bearing on what she should do. You, and your ex, are lucky that you could afford to do without maintenance, most can’t. And you’d probably find if your partner had been reasonable to his ex in the first place then she might have been more willing to negotiate.
I don’t understand how he couldn’t prove the car was in her name? That’s very easy to do. In any case I don’t think you can transfer a loan anyway. She could choose to get a loan in her own name to pay off the existing loan, but he couldn’t have forced her to do that.
If she doesn’t have it anymore then presumably she sold it and kept the money, leaving him to pay the loan.
If it is in his name then he could report it stolen.
It does sound like something isn’t adding up with what he’s said about the car.
If what he’s told you is true then I don’t think either of them have covered themselves in glory with regards to the children.
The ex cheated, moved in a new man and got pregnant within 3 months which must have been very confusing for the kids. She then kept and presumably sold a car that was bought in good faith whilst they were still a family. Said he can pay the loans instead of maintenance then went to the CMS. Crippling the dad financially meaning he has no money to entertain the kids. Doesn’t encourage contact. Involved the kids in their problems by telling them about the report to social services. Stopped paying towards their mortgage meaning they lost the house.
He made the malicious report to social services, which could have had damaging consequences for the kids and is now trying to get 50:50 for financial reasons rather that what the kids want.
From what he’s said I think the ex has behaved worse.
Thinking of you though OP. Is he a least covering his share of the bills? It’s not fair for you to have to be paying for everything, particularly as you have your own daughter to think about.
When he goes back to stepchange he can tell them not to take your income into account and to divide the rent/bills etc either 50:50 or proportional to income. That way the debt repayments are only taken out of his share leaving you only having to pay for your share of bills and with disposable income. Hopefully that will mean you are better off financially.
* Involved the kids in their problems by telling them about the report to social services.*
The kids were probably spoken too by social services so that would have to be explained.
Sorry - crosspost there!
I think step change is the only thing he can do there and making sure your income isn’t taken into account will free up some money for you.
You shouldn’t be left with no money because of his selfish ex!
Please login first.