PUPD success stories/advice please!

[Huishnish]

My ds2 who is 5 months has suddenly started sleeping horribly, I mean waking every 1.5 hours, won't be put down in his cot, and usually is awake from 1:30am to 4:30. I'm trying to cope with him and his brother (just turned 2) on 3-4 hours of broken sleep a night. So... Thought I would try pupd. He's ebf and has always fed to sleep which was working brilliantly until last week. Would love to hear any stories from people who've tried it and any golden nuggets of advice! He is a great character and v strong willed so I'm not expecting it to be easy... TIA

[FATEdestiny]

Have you tried a dummy as a replacement for breastfeeding to sleep.

I can't help with PUPD I'm afraid, I'm a veteran on Gradual awithdrawal instead.

[maccamummy]

Hi Huish I've no success but in a similar position - perhaps we could get through it together! DS is 4.5 months and easy to get to sleep (naps are in a sling and night time I sing to sleep - I think he goes to sleep to avoid my singing!) but I can't put him down - he can be awake before I even get him into the cot. He just knows!! So I thought I'd try PU/PD next - if he goes to sleep in the cot, then I don't have to worry about putting him in the cot!
How are you getting on so far?

[Huishnish]

Hi Macca, Ive been doing PUPD since Wednesday night, it's made the most incredible difference (touch wood...) The first night was horrific, since then he's slept well, just up once for a feed and easily settled, and has been easy to put down for naps. Go for it!! Let me know how you get on

[maccamummy]

Oh goodness. Well done you. Did you just start?! And do all sleeps/ naps? I'm thinking about a gradual introduction as I think it's important that DS gets sleep. So maybe introduce for naps first. Or is that just confusing? Who knows?! Hope it continues for you. I'm going to start this morning X

[PetrovaFossil1]

I just did it for naps and night time fell into place with no effort

[Huishnish]

Macca I read a good explanation of it on netmums and also the chapter in baby whisperer solves all your problems (if only!) and went for it. His sleeping had got so bad I could t take it any more plus having to look after my toddler during the day too. I actually did it for night time first but have been consistent every time I put him down. He does still have one nap in the buggy every day though. Esp after I'd done that first night which was really hard and quite heartbreaking I felt like I'd undo the hard work if I wasn't consistent. It's still not perfect but usually only 10 mins of crying/pupd. I sometimes wonder if I aggravate him more by doing pupd rather than just leaving him- a couple of times I w had to leave the room to check in my toddler and he's drifted off. I just can't bear the thought of leaving him crying on his own

[Huishnish]

Hi macca, how did you go this morning? To give you hope... Just put ds2 down to bed after his bath. Music on, into sleeping bag, gave him a kiss and left. Not a single cry and 5 mins later he's asleep... Unprecedented!!! Seriously, a week ago I would have laughed if you'd said he could get to sleep without being on the boob, let alone being put down wide awake in his cot and happily sending himself to sleep. This is day 6. So hang in there

[maccamummy]

Hi Huish - ACE news - well done you! I'm so pleased for you. don't be cross haha but I didn't try this aft, and failed this evening! I tried, but I missed the drowsy stage and DS was asleep when I put him down. That said, I got him down still asleep which, this past fortnight, is a miracle. So I'm back on it tomorrow and will pop him down at drowsy. I'm definitely taking hope from you! Thank you

[Huishnish]

Haha! Have to say my wee one doesn't seem to do drowsy so it's either fast asleep or wide awake Good luck for tomorrow and keep me posted!

[maccamummy]

Well I tried. An hour 45 of pu/pd and he just falls asleep in my arms as soon as I pick him up. Will have this nap in my arms (I'm dying for lunch haha) and try again later. I won't give up!
It's difficult because I had him calm and then crying again long before he touched the mattress. When the books say stop crying, how did you take that? Total silence or just the tears stopping and the whingey noise dying down?

[maccamummy]

Right I'm failing at this! So I do bed (or nap) time routine. Then what I used to do is sing / rock to sleep and then put down. Prob is I can't put down anymore. So what I do tonight is bedtime routine and then sing until drowsy, then put down. Keep singing and patting for ages but being put down wakes him up, so he's entertained and then cried because he's bored. Then I pick up, calm and put down , but I can't even get him down before he cried so I pick up and calm - but this goes on and on - been an hour now and he's just zonked on my shoulder. Is this what happened to you? Argh!

[Huishnish]

Hour 45 sounds pretty hardcore. Poor you. We've had a bit of a setback last few nights, have just been in to see him whereas when I first started doing he he was sleeping until 3 before waking. I read somewhere that if they seem to be fighting eg arching away or kicking then you should put them down right away and tbh my wee one never really stopped crying when I picked him up, he was fighting straight away so I would just put him straight down again. So it was a long patch of crying and I after I put him down I usually tried to stroke his head while he was in the cot to calm him down . I think the book says if you hold them too long it won't work as they're not learning to fall asleep in the cot, I think 2-3 mins max (can't remember exactly). It's all a bit of a guessing game I reckon but with mine he just struggles against sleep so much, I think it's an angry cry rather than a sad/painful cry. Don't know if that helps at all. It's hard going but I think much better than cc or cry it out, at least we are always with them. Sorry for rambling, absolutely knackered after long day with the two if them

[Huishnish]

Sorry just posted my last one before seeing your last one... Maybe more comforting in the cot? Argh not sure! Mine kind of goes from raging/screaming on me, I put him down (still cross), he turns onto his side and the next thing I know he's asleep (this is after anything from 5-10 mins after starting. The first night it was 50 mins if non-stop screaming). I don't seem to be able to calm him down when I'm holding him as he seems desperate to get away from me and book says at this point you should put down straight away. Hope this makes some kind of sense! I reckon if you have a kindle get the baby whisperer solves all your problems. There's a really good chapter on it. Hang in there x

[maccamummy]

Oh you are doing so well. Keep on at it! :-)
I had two successes... I managed to calm him to sleep in the cot twice (at 8pm ish and just now)- he woke at 23:45 and (clever he is, he can tell the time - I said not before half 11!) was hungry. A bit of a happy battle (ie he wasn't crying, just didn't want to sleep) to get him to sleep but white noise, shushing and patting has got him back to sleep in the cot. Now I'm frantically googling the risk of sleeping on your side. Think it's only an issue if baby can roll to their front - he can't - he's in a sleepy head and is really a wonky back sleeper rather than a side sleeper. Thanks so much - I'll get the book!

[maccamummy]

PS totally agree better than Cc or CIO - we're there with them. Well done for managing this and a toddler too!

[speedyboots]

Reading with interest... ds2 is 3 months. Currently feed to sleep. Nights are OK at the moment but naps are a disaster, and I know from ds1 that if I continue to just feed to sleep, the nights will end up tricky too.
So I'm considering pupd. Can you explain exactly what you did at first, i.e. How long you waited to pick him up and how long you held him for. You said you didn't always wait for him to stop crying before putting him back down? Thank you in advance!

[Huishnish]

Macca that's great! Result! I find my wee one likes to sleep on his side too. I'm pretty sure it's fine at this age. He can occasionally roll either way so I'm not too worried.
Speedy I'm the same as you- fed ds1 to sleep until it didn't work then had NO sleep until he was 10.5 months. It was awful. Swore I wouldn't do the same with ds2 and did until it stopped working a few weeks ago and I just couldn't spend the next 5 months getting 3-4 hours a night. So... Doing pupd the first night I found I was almost constantly picking him up or putting him down. Put him down - cry - pick up - crying and fighting so put down straight away - try to comfort in cot for few minutes - pick up etc etc I think he actually needed to get through the frustration of wanting to sleep and not knowing how so I didn't really comfort him when I picked him up, just held him to reassure I was there iyswim. I was really prepared for it to be long and difficult and it was. First night he cried constantly for 50 mins while I did pupd, then fell asleep and woke up 10 mins later and I had to do it again for 30 mins. But since then it's just 5-10 mins or he goes down no problem straight away. Have to say nights are still quite difficult, I was hoping it would sort it all out but whether its developmental/teething not sure but he's still up quite a few times and usually around 5:30 for the day. I guess it's quite a long road to gently encourage him to sleep without feeding! Plus I haven't done the EASY routine thing during the day- don't see how I could manage it with his brother's things to go to etc Would be really interested to see how you go/any thoughts/ideas. Good luck!

[Huishnish]

Ps the best thing is being able to put him down for a nap without spending hours feeding him then praying I'd be able to do the transfer! And I can now be in more of a routine with his feeds as he can have a proper full feed every 3 ish hours rather than snacking on and off the whole day which I needed to have in place before I go back to work

[maccamummy]

Welcome speedy. How was this eve? I did normal bedtime routine - bath, sing, rock. Make DS drowsy and put down. Took 50 mins of PU/PD to get him to sleep in my arms (!) and then I got him in his cot still asleep (I know that's not how it works but I'm finding it difficult to get him calm to put down within the 2-3 mins guidelines so he either goes down crying in that time or he goes straight to sleep!). Hey ho, he's asleep in the cot which is the main thing and definite progress for me. He did 50 mins in the cot and then needed another 30 mins of PU/PD before going to sleep in the cot (and that's where we're up to now). Speedy hope that helps - but i haven't got it to work yet! Defo read the book. It's helpful. to you all xx

[speedyboots]

Argh just lost a huge post 😣
Thanks both for the information. For us currently it's naps that are the issue. Yesterday was ridiculous - he kept having 20 minute naps then still being exhausted and just crying so I would feed him again and the cycle would continue.
I was really in two minds about pupd as he is so little still (just three months) so I've decided to try another idea first. Basically you substitute their favourite method of falling asleep with one their not so keen on, the idea being ot will be easier to wean them off the one their not so keen on. Also I read about the fade out method and I think it's easier to fade out rocking than feeding iyswim.
So this morning instead of feeding ds to sleep I rocked him. He was really tired and his eyes closed straight away. I put him down and he woke up just a little (the magical drowsy but awake that I never normally see) and I jiggled his tummy a bit and went to sleep for two hours!! I'm sure going to sleep alone in his cot was the key. So I will have to see if i can do the same tomorrow. I will keep you posted!

[speedyboots]

And good luck for tonight 💐

[maccamummy]

Oh speedy well done you. Can your LO have a word with my DS please? Sounds like a good idea re using something they don't like as much. Maybe I could wean myself off snacking that way. Switch my chocolates for carrot sticks and then they are easier to give up. Thanks for the life advice ha! Starting bedtime now - a bit late!

[Huishnish]

Ha the magical drowsy but awake! Sounds like a plan speedy. I know what you mean about the 20 min naps. My ds is like that too, trying to use pupd when he wakes early from a nap which does seem to extend it a bit. What I never know is how much they should be sleeping during the day. Thought mine had loads of sleep today then was knackered by 5pm when his brother was in the middle of tea have just popped him down but he's grumbling I think from being overtired poor wee man. Macca that sounds good for last night! As you say, the main thing is getting them to sleep in the cot. I do think keep trying with the pupd. I feel completely drained with it tbh but I can't believe the improvement in a week. Had such a good night last night (this will probably jinx it now) went to sleep without a peep, up once for a quick feedsnd slept until 7. I felt like a new person today. Got everything crossed that tonight will be as good Good luck to us all for tonight!

[Huishnish]

Ps nice to be all going through this at the same time

[maccamummy]

Well this is exhausting isn't it? But I feel like we're all making progress. 50 mins pu/PD for me tonight, and then he fell asleep in the cot. Hurrah. He woke just now at 45 mins but only about 30 seconds shushing sorted it.
Yes Huish. It's so good to encourage each other. I was definitely encouraged by you both so thank you.
I read somewhere that they need about 3 hrs in the day - a morning nap, lunchtime and then a shorter one late aft, but I'll be buggered if we reach anywhere near that, even in the sling!
Good luck tonight